Is education in the UK a scam ?

Davy_Jones_II

What’s this job paying £60,000 then?

We pay the graduates in my company that, but outside banking it’s not very common.

You sound as though you have quite a lot of growing up to do, and I’d recommend that you do it soon. A fair few of our highly paid youngsters turn out not to be worth the pay after a couple of years, so are let go, and many never work in the city again.

You are being paid for potential at the moment, you need to turn that quite rapidly into providing actual value. If you blame issues on others that’s quite hard to do, you will only grow in the workplace by focusing on your own weaknesses.

justcamehere5

Davy_Jones_II wrote: »

What’s this job paying £60,000 then?
.

Fintech, I am in the development department and I have done Computer Science.

It is very common in technology companies that are not your big banks. Who would want to work in a bank anyway?

Not sure what you mean, my performance is quite good according to my superiors.

That being said, I probably get where you are coming from. I have tons of friends in finance, risk etc in banks and yeah hours are not good.

I work high hours too but that is because the project I work on is only with one other guy and I really like the project and its potential.

JayRitchie

kinger101 wrote: »

The tax rates are not very similar at all.

If we take pay of £45,000, the income tax would be £6,500 (14.44%) and the NI would be £4,364 (9.70%)

If we take the EUR equivalent of 52,200, income tax (inc solidarity charge) would be 10,041 (20.0%) and social security 10,479 (20.0%). About half the social security goes toward a much more generous state pension.

The problem with the UK is we want a state sector with the same benefits of Northern Europe but funded for with US levels of taxation.

And yet lets take the OPs situation (I'm taking your percentages for tax as read). In the UK on a £45k salary he pays about 25% of this as tax. The Northern European equivalent (Germany or NL?) is about 40% tax. However the OP also pays a marginal 9% tax rate to repay student loans which considerably closes the gap.

In addition there are far better health and public services in either Germany or the Netherlands - plus way better pension provision.

We have a generational divide where the young and capable pay something close to social democratic tax rates without getting social democratic benefits. Those a few years older don't pay the extra 9%. I'd suggest the OP is right to be pretty annoyed.

JayRitchie

Beartricks wrote: »

I think it is entirely wrong that a university can charge £9,000 a year for a course that almost guarantees a job such as medicine or engineering, and that requires suites of expensive and up to date equipment (MRI scanners, aviation simulators, my uni had a reinforced room for controlled explosions) and charge the same amount for a course that requires a small room off campus, a few teachers and a photocopier for handouts.

Universities receive separate funding for medical and STEM degrees.

Beartricks wrote: »

But of course universities are going to ask for the highest amount across the board. Why wouldn't they?

The only way the wouldn't is if students chose cheaper courses. However this doesn't happen for two reasons:

- students and their parents perceive lower priced courses as inferior so reducing prices reduces uptake.
- there is no financial incentive to take a lower priced course. For almost all students looking at courses where the price could easily be lower the actual repayments would be the same in any case. Its far wiser for the university to offer a fancy fre gym, vouchers to spend on campus, subsidised 'educational' trip abroad etc to attract students.

justcamehere5

JayRitchie wrote: »

We have a generational divide where the young and capable pay something close to social democratic tax rates without getting social democratic benefits. Those a few years older don't pay the extra 9%. I'd suggest the OP is right to be pretty annoyed.

Ding. Ding. Ding. Ding.

Davy_Jones_II

justcamehere5 wrote: »

The problem is when employers here in the City and the UK don't favour fresh native grads from top universities here and allow someone to be able to literally carve out a path that cherry-picks the good stuff from several - get education from somewhere like Germany then come to work in London at what appears to be a lower tax rate (yes, I won't ignore those previous posts, fair game).

The city tries to pick the best from all around the world, there’s no reason for them to favour the U.K. graduates over anyone else, they just want the best.

I do think that HR seems a bit overly keen on some overseas universities from India and China, but on the other hand I also think that we should be concentrating on only a handful of universities in the U.K., rather than on the wide variety that are currently targeted.

If you want to get into the city it’s easier than it’s been in decades as it’s fallen out of favour. If you’ve something to make you stand out and a first or a 2:1 from one of the top universities then it’s worth applying.

Davy_Jones_II

justcamehere5 wrote: »

Fintech, I am in the development department and I have done Computer Science.

It is very common in technology companies that are not your big banks. Who would want to work in a bank anyway?

Me. The work is interesting, challenging, and very well paid and has also allowed me to work in several different countries.

I like the fact that individual effort is more critical in banking than in many jobs, which means that I tend to live or die based on what I do, not what others do.

I also like the fact that pay is performance based, very much so in some circumstances.

fred246

And when bankers make a total mess everyone has to bail them out which is how all this happened in the first place. The bankers have messed up. Someone has to pay. I bet those young people messing with their phones won't even notice that the debt has been piled on them.

justcamehere5

Davy_Jones_II wrote: »

Me. The work is interesting, challenging, and very well paid and has also allowed me to work in several different countries.

I like the fact that individual effort is more critical in banking than in many jobs, which means that I tend to live or die based on what I do, not what others do.

I also like the fact that pay is performance based, very much so in some circumstances.

Haha, keep telling yourself that, chap.

I have done an internship in tech in banking in addition to one of those Spring Weeks and I was flabbergasted by the whole environment. Don't know which bullcrap business analyst role you have, neither do I care.

Firstly, there is nothing challenging and interesting about being an Excel and Powerpoint jockey.

Secondly, having coded some of the platforms for specific financial products that traders use and having ex-traders working with me at my current place, for someone working in banking you have little idea of how dodgy things still are (people have that 08' headache and mindset for a reason).

They would absolutely laugh at "pay and bonuses" based on "fair performance and critical thinking than in many jobs".

Lastly, technology moves slowly in big banks, so it is high-time fintech start-ups offer a better way of doing things to people.

Literally one of the best features of MSE is breaking down everyday financial concepts for ordinary people. Why is banking so complex in the first place for them to have to do this?

Good day, Sir. All the very best.

Davy_Jones_II

Keep telling myself what?

I’m in trading, and yes it’s challenging, and enjoyable.

Do you honestly think that you know better having done an internship in tech? Why? Do you not realize how ridiculous that is?