Is education in the UK a scam ?

justcamehere5

LilElvis wrote: »

Yes, you should be aggrieved - your use of the English language is appalling. I would be ashamed if my nine year old wrote in such a slovenly way.

Try looking at tuition fees in the USA and thank your lucky stars as you would need two degrees for any professional career and multiple times the cost of your loans.

The difference is I can't come easily to the USA to make more money (due to less tax) at a top job due to their preference for hiring people from their OWN top universities.

gettingtheresometime

I don't think I've ever called someone a wind up merchant but the OP coming seriously close.

The situation in the U.K. is what it is.

The situation in Germany is what it is

The situation in the US is what it is.

For goodness sake OP grow up.

singhini

OP - Forget about the £30,000 (sleep easy knowing that for atleast the first 18 years of your life you were getting more out of the system than you were putting in).
Perhaps you were born in an NHS hospital (you didn't pay for it, others did).
You went to little school (you didn't pay for it, others did).
You went to slightly bigger school (you didn't pay for it, others did).
You went to college (you didn't pay for it, others did).
You played in the park and other open spaces (you didn't pay for it, others did).
You didn't feel well and used the NHS to see a doctor (you didn't pay for it, others did).
Opticians, dentistry, prescriptions (you didn't pay for it, others did).
You live in a country with a police force (you didn't pay for it, others did).
You live in a country with an army protecting it (you didn't pay for it, others did).
Prior to 2013 sate benefits such as Child benefit were not means tested and were handed out by the state (you didn't pay for it, others did).

Im sure you get the picture.

Sleep easy dear child and focus on retirement, again you will not be contributing as much in later life.

justcamehere5

singhini wrote: »

Im sure you get the picture.

I do. Why do you think I am not thankful? As mentioned, happy to be taxed in the higher bracket to help.

But all of the things you mentioned are the same in Germany and the Netherlands.

singhini

justcamehere5 wrote: »

I do. Why do you think I am not thankful? As mentioned, happy to be taxed in the higher bracket to help.

But all of the things you mentioned are the same in Germany and the Netherlands.

When did you mention you were grateful what this country has done for you? (You keep comparing yourself to other countries which is pointless).

You mention your a higher rate tax payer and your happy to help but there's no guarantee you will remain like this (you could get made redundant). In which case you don't need to worry about the £30,000

Manxman_in_exile

UK universities are quite good though, aren't they?


Looking at The Times Higher Education world university rankings (2019), the top two are UK, and another two rank 9th and 14th. Singapore is 23rd (gone down in 2020 I think). One Chinese (22nd) and one Canadian (21st). The only European university in the top 25 is Swiss (11th). The remaining top 25 are American. One of the ones I went to (UK) comes in at 26th and another UK one at 29.


The first EU non-UK university is at 32. (Always surprises me when people go on about the impact of Brexit on higher education and research).


Where I do agree with you is that I think it's scandalous that all(?) universities charge the same irrespective of the university's academic reputation and irrespective of the perceived "value" of the course itself.


As a working class kid myself (old enough to have benefited from two "free" degrees) I'm afraid a lot of working class children have been conned into paying top whack for virtually worthless degrees. (And I blame Tony Blair for that).

bugslett

justcamehere5 wrote: »

Nope, I just want the UK to have free education for all like Germany. Given that taxation is very similar, I think it is a fair thing to expect



Plenty of Conservative-voting business-owning middle-aged trash humans also abuse Eastern Europeans in warehouses across the UK, don't worry chap !

Could you outline the countries taxation levels, income tax, VAT, Corp, CGT and any others that may be unique to either country.

Also for a true assessment, what percentage of the population attend university.

And for a true comparison we need to understand the whole welfare state and what the government does and doesnt provide for its citizens.


I dont know and saying it's the same near enough doesnt make sense.

As for warehouse jobs, the job is the job, it doesnt make any difference what the nationality is.

shortcrust

Sounds like the system is working really well to me. You’re reaping some pretty hefty financial benefits from your studies so it’s appropriate that you put something back, above and beyond the taxes that a similar non-graduate earner would pay.

There is no such thing as free education. It all has to be paid for one way or another. I’d rather you paid for it than everyone else. I have a lot of sympathy with the many people whose qualifications benefits the broader UK society, but zero sympathy someone who’s planning to skip off to Singapore taking the benefits of their studies with them.

Manxman_in_exile

Just to add to my previous post so as not to appear hypocritical!


I actually disagree with university tuition fees. I think it should be free* - funded out of general taxation revenue. For those graduates who benefit financially from their qualification (eg £60k+ at 23 and god knows what at 40 - 50) they ought to be funding higher education through a properly graduated and progressive taxation system (which I think the OP would be happy about).


Of course, as others have pointed out, university fees don't really create a "debt" in the normal sense of the word. As Martin keeps pointing out on radio and TV, the repayment (or not) of the "debt" is better seen as an additional tax on graduates earning above a particular threshold.


That's ok, but where I think it is wrong is that I've no doubt the words "fees" and "debt" inevitably discourage some students, perhaps from working class backgrounds from applying to university. (My parents would have told me I couldn't "afford" it).


*I accept that there may be a valid argument about whether all degrees should be state funded. I generally think that more graduates is a benefit for society as a whole, but I do fail to see the value of some subjects. (And as suggested above - I think Blair's idea of having 50% of adults go to university is bonkers. We need more technical colleges and apprenticeships as in, for example, Germany).

spadoosh

Germans pay for germans to have free/cheap university education.

Brits do not pay for brits to have as cheap university education.

You say taxation is similar betewen the two countries and its just not.

Our tax to gdp ratio is ~33.33%

Germanys is 37.5%.

UK GDP to public spending ratio is about 38%

In Germany its closer to 44.5%.


Germans do pay more in tax. Paying more in tax allows them to have cheaper tuition fees. Its that simple. Assuming you work in the UK you pay less tax than a german would in germany earning the same (saving quirks of the tax system).

The problem of having high tax and low tuition fees is one you should realise. That being where are all your international friends working? Its not in their home countries is it? So they took the cheap tuition at the german tax payers expense and then took their productivity to contribute to another economy.

Where as you, well you dont want to work in germany, youll pay more tax and considering youve got to pay back your loan as well it doesnt make financial sense.

Im assuming you didnt study economics?