BEVs deals and information

gefnew

Hi
my milk has been delivered by electric vehicle for more than 30 years and is still the same one.
that's planet saving.

gefnew

Hi
My milk has been delivered by electric vehicle for more than 30 years,
and is still the same one.
that's planet saving a little way.

joefizz

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Obviously there'll be times when demand overlaps, but I'm sure that can be worked out.

Edit - plus of course curbside charging, lamp posts, Virgin Media boxes, induction pads etc etc as time goes on.

In theory or using averages everything is possible. Its the practicalities that become the issue. Split and shared charging work but not if you have to run a cable down the driveway and out on to the street.
Forget to charge and have to go out in the rain at night and swap cars over or get called out for something and you dont have enough charge etc etc. Its the practicalities that are the problem, not the theory.

So for instance with the lamp posts, virgin media boxes etc, here they are placed on the inside of the footpath so to avoid a trip hazard thats a lot of individual digging up of footpaths to put a kerbside charger if indeed its possible with the local grid, planning and available street/road space. Induction pads would be highly unlikely to be approved on public streets/roads which again brings back the problem of taking multiple sources off a household feed supply.

So again, using a real world example if a visitor here turns up to charge their car, if I was charging mine they would have to ask a neighbour, go to the nearest charging point about 300m away which is in a park that closes at 10pm and the next nearest is 3 times that distance in,ironically, a petrol station.
Footpath charging stations wont get approval in this area as the streets are too narrow, hence the problem with people parking half on the kerb, half on the street, so it would be car shuffle most days (which I give you is practical but most arrange their cars on who leaves for work first each morning).



Its the real life usage, retrofitting and planning aspects which are the main obstacles, not theoretical kwh calculations based on averages. If we used the average figures everyone would be better off in CO2 terms by running old low emitting, high mpg ICE cars than buying new EVs ;-)

The average figures would be the selling point for plug in electric (my personal favourite choice) charge enough for 30 miles per journey, ICE for the rest or for unexpected or lack of chargers etc.
Coincidently this afternoon a friend emailed me a link to outlines for a new alfa plug in hybrid coming in 2021, guess I'll hold off until then, although as has been posted there are a lot of people working with older tesla batteries/crash repairs and retrofitting them to older cars. Id love to give that a go myself but god knows what the mot testers would make of it (if it was allowed on the road at all).


Simple way to solve all of the above is to ensure new build estates have space for both charging cars and visitors charging stations (places in Canada do this) but if you have a look round new build estates these days, most dont have enough parking spaces for cars as it is.

It takes planning and legislation going forward to make it practical for most people, so we come round full circle again into reducing overall car numbers regardless of powertrain.


I agree with you, we are at a crossroads and technically and theoretically it is all possible but as with discussions on the electricity grid its the current infrastructure and planning going forward that are the biggest issues regarding practicalities.

Hexane

[additive tanks on modern diesel cars]

EricMears wrote: »

That makes it sound as though the 'tank' was similar in size to the fuel tank ! It's actually only a litre or two.

Twelve litres on the Audi A4, which is not insignificant on what is a relatively small car

GreatApe

Martyn1981 wrote: »

In the UK the average mileage is 7,900 pa, which is 150 per week, or 22 per day. So that's around 1hr of 7kW charging for a day, or about 5hrs for a weeks worth. Even at 3kW granny charge, it's only about 2hrs per day, and a second EV could get around 36kWh's or ~140 miles if someone is hogging the fast(er) charger.

Obviously there'll be times when demand overlaps, but I'm sure that can be worked out.

Edit - plus of course curbside charging, lamp posts, Virgin Media boxes, induction pads etc etc as time goes on.

As per the previous BEV threads there is self discharge and vampire draw and charging inefficiencies

So while 8,000 miles devided by 4 miles per kWh = 2,000 units of electricity the actual units needed will be closer to 3,000 units of electric X about 33 million cars = 100TWh daily add another 50% or so for commercial vehicles and you are at about 150TWh to electrify transportation

That's certainly possible
But there will need to be management of charging these cars which wouldn't be that difficult

I'd hope there would be a specific rate for EV charging perhaps only 5p a unit and it would be around for about 20 hours a day so yes even in a 3KW charger there would be no problems. Currently the only reason a fast home charger makes sense is is a person does lots of miles and wants to charge exclusively over the 4 cheap Hours

EricMears

Hexane wrote: »

[additive tanks on modern diesel cars]
Twelve litres on the Audi A4, which is not insignificant on what is a relatively small car

That's amazing ! Volvo (& the Ford models they're derived from) are apparently only 1.8litres.

GreatApe

joefizz wrote: »

In theory or using averages everything is possible. Its the practicalities that become the issue. Split and shared charging work but not if you have to run a cable down the driveway and out on to the street.
Forget to charge and have to go out in the rain at night and swap cars over or get called out for something and you dont have enough charge etc etc. Its the practicalities that are the problem, not the theory.

So for instance with the lamp posts, virgin media boxes etc, here they are placed on the inside of the footpath so to avoid a trip hazard thats a lot of individual digging up of footpaths to put a kerbside charger if indeed its possible with the local grid, planning and available street/road space. Induction pads would be highly unlikely to be approved on public streets/roads which again brings back the problem of taking multiple sources off a household feed supply.

So again, using a real world example if a visitor here turns up to charge their car, if I was charging mine they would have to ask a neighbour, go to the nearest charging point about 300m away which is in a park that closes at 10pm and the next nearest is 3 times that distance in,ironically, a petrol station.
Footpath charging stations wont get approval in this area as the streets are too narrow, hence the problem with people parking half on the kerb, half on the street, so it would be car shuffle most days (which I give you is practical but most arrange their cars on who leaves for work first each morning).



Its the real life usage, retrofitting and planning aspects which are the main obstacles, not theoretical kwh calculations based on averages. If we used the average figures everyone would be better off in CO2 terms by running old low emitting, high mpg ICE cars than buying new EVs ;-)

The average figures would be the selling point for plug in electric (my personal favourite choice) charge enough for 30 miles per journey, ICE for the rest or for unexpected or lack of chargers etc.
Coincidently this afternoon a friend emailed me a link to outlines for a new alfa plug in hybrid coming in 2021, guess I'll hold off until then, although as has been posted there are a lot of people working with older tesla batteries/crash repairs and retrofitting them to older cars. Id love to give that a go myself but god knows what the mot testers would make of it (if it was allowed on the road at all).


Simple way to solve all of the above is to ensure new build estates have space for both charging cars and visitors charging stations (places in Canada do this) but if you have a look round new build estates these days, most dont have enough parking spaces for cars as it is.

It takes planning and legislation going forward to make it practical for most people, so we come round full circle again into reducing overall car numbers regardless of powertrain.


I agree with you, we are at a crossroads and technically and theoretically it is all possible but as with discussions on the electricity grid its the current infrastructure and planning going forward that are the biggest issues regarding practicalities.

Right now electric cars are a tiny fraction of the stock of cars but if they become popular I would imagine super chargers would be much much more common and the prices would be much more competitive

If that was the case I suspect many EV owners would charge purely on these super chargers once or twice a week. If they were very common then people would be fine using their cars until they are about 10% charge remaining just like many people use their petrol cars until there is only about 50 miles of petrol remaining. Safe in the knowledge that there are superchargers everywhere in the same way there are petrol stations everywhere

GreatApe

JKenH wrote: »

Has anyone given any thought to the charging network(s) being hacked or catching a virus? If we can go for several hours without being able to get money out of our bank the same could happen with electricity out of a charger. Glitches can occur.

Earlier this year I was on my way back from Cheshire and realised I could do with some more diesel. Rather than pay motorway prices I came off at J28 of the M62 and drove into a small garage. I filled my car up then went to pay but the card machine wouldn’t work. Despite language difficulties I managed to pay with cash and was on my way again. Do charging points take cash? As long as there is power to the pump you can fill your ICE car up.

Although most of us live our lives without the need for physical cash, a significant part of the economy still operates on cash and buying your fuel with cash is an easy way of keeping it out of sight of the taxman.

When I was much younger and hard up I frequently would run out of petrol - not the best way to impress the girlfriend - and I used to keep a can in the boot. Even if you don’t have a can you can thumb a lift to and from a petrol station, buy a can and be on your way again. (Yes, I have done that). Or you can ring a mate or the wife if you are local or the AA if not (I have done that as well) and you are on your way.

If you are in your EV on your way home where you can charge for free you might know you can get there ok with limited range left. But what happens if you get stuck on the motorway in a 10 mile tailback of slow moving traffic, it turns dark and starts to snow. Will you still make it or will you be going home on the back of a recovery truck?

Range anxiety isn’t quite the same in an ICE but I suppose, on the upside, you can’t put the wrong sort of fuel in an EV.:)

All solved by having many chargers everywhere and even a few that accept coins
This is possible due to them being compact cheap and electricity is more or less everywhere

Also with phones you can now charge up one phone with another phone
That will probably be possible in the future so bum a few miles charge from a stranger give him a couple quid if necessary or ask the wife to save you and recharge the car enough to get you home or to a charge point

I think I'd help someone without charge give him 5KWh it's only 50 pence worth
Ain't Gona do that with a petrol car
Perhaps police and breakdown services will also do that to just keep people moving

Martyn1981

joefizz wrote: »

So again, using a real world example if a visitor here turns up to charge their car, if I was charging mine they would have to ask a neighbour, go to the nearest charging point about 300m away which is in a park that closes at 10pm and the next nearest is 3 times that distance in,ironically, a petrol station.

If your car needed charging, and of course it might not, wouldn't you just plug in the visitor's car, then charge yours after they leave? Even if they left at midnight, and you're off at 7am, that's still 200 miles of charge.

I totally appreciate that the problem with averages is that not everything will be average all the time, but things still tend to average out in most cases.

JKenH

No need to worry after all

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/rac-launches-ev-flat-battery-recovery-scheme

Called EV Boost, the EV recovery device has been installed on six of the breakdown service’s Ford Transit Custom patrol vans ahead of a large-scale roll-out over the coming years.

As with the RAC’s Fuel Assist service, customers with an EV that’s run out of charge will receive a top-up boost, allowing them to progress to the nearest charging point.

The EV Boost system is powered by an electrical generator mated to the patrol van’s 1.9-litre diesel engine, and sends charge through an inverter to the power unit in the stranded EV. The RAC says the charging device is compatible with all Type 1 and 2 connections, accounting for the vast majority of EVs on UK roads.