BEVs deals and information

JKenH

I apologise if this has already been posted but these are the PCP deals Tesla is offering

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/personal-contract-purchase

Martyn1981

ABrass wrote: »

The more miles you do the better electric cars work out. The question is how predictable your milage will be. If you've got a 100 mile daily round trip commute then a Hyundai ioniq or Nissan leaf will be plenty and you'd save a fortune in fuel costs. Further is possible if you've got a charger at the middle.

The inverse is also true. If you do piddling miles then a petrol car is going to be much cheaper and probably greener.

Something that blew my mind about BEV's was posted a year or so back by a poster with several years of experience and an annual mileage of about 50k.

They'd (in the past) had a BMW i3 range extender, but when it became time to replace they went with a non rx model as they'd used the range extender so little.

They talk about using the charging network, and even doing paperwork then, whilst waiting.

It occurred to me that if someone can do that kind of mileage with a BEV, and when push comes to shove, move away from the range extender, then the practicality must be fine, in the real world, and my (and others) worries are unjust. I think they are now driving a Kona.

JKenH

Has anyone given any thought to the charging network(s) being hacked or catching a virus? If we can go for several hours without being able to get money out of our bank the same could happen with electricity out of a charger. Glitches can occur.

Earlier this year I was on my way back from Cheshire and realised I could do with some more diesel. Rather than pay motorway prices I came off at J28 of the M62 and drove into a small garage. I filled my car up then went to pay but the card machine wouldn’t work. Despite language difficulties I managed to pay with cash and was on my way again. Do charging points take cash? As long as there is power to the pump you can fill your ICE car up.

Although most of us live our lives without the need for physical cash, a significant part of the economy still operates on cash and buying your fuel with cash is an easy way of keeping it out of sight of the taxman.

When I was much younger and hard up I frequently would run out of petrol - not the best way to impress the girlfriend - and I used to keep a can in the boot. Even if you don’t have a can you can thumb a lift to and from a petrol station, buy a can and be on your way again. (Yes, I have done that). Or you can ring a mate or the wife if you are local or the AA if not (I have done that as well) and you are on your way.

If you are in your EV on your way home where you can charge for free you might know you can get there ok with limited range left. But what happens if you get stuck on the motorway in a 10 mile tailback of slow moving traffic, it turns dark and starts to snow. Will you still make it or will you be going home on the back of a recovery truck?

Range anxiety isn’t quite the same in an ICE but I suppose, on the upside, you can’t put the wrong sort of fuel in an EV.:)

ABrass

No, that is not a reasonable concern. There are always dumb chargers and s proliferation of devices and suppliers plus they aren't that complex. Less attack surface.

It'll make it onto a TV show but it's like asking what if there was an virus that attacked everyone's toasters.

JKenH

ABrass wrote: »

No, that is not a reasonable concern. There are always dumb chargers and s proliferation of devices and suppliers plus they aren't that complex. Less attack surface.

It'll make it onto a TV show but it's like asking what if there was an virus that attacked everyone's toasters.

That’s the thing about anxiety, it doesn’t have to be reasonable. Telling someone not to be anxious about something doesn’t allay their fears. I know people who refuse to have credit cards or do anything online because they fear fraud.

JKenH

ABrass wrote: »

No, that is not a reasonable concern. There are always dumb chargers and s proliferation of devices and suppliers plus they aren't that complex. Less attack surface.

It'll make it onto a TV show but it's like asking what if there was an virus that attacked everyone's toasters.

It can happen

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/6924438/natwest-card-payments-down/

NatWest card payments down with customers unable to use them online and in shops
The bank, which has millions of customers, has said that the issue has now been resolved


NATWEST customers were unable to make card payments in shops and online causing chaos during the lunchtime rush.

The bank, which has millions of customers, apologised to customers for the glitch.

mmmmikey

JKenH wrote: »

Do charging points take cash? As long as there is power to the pump you can fill your ICE car up.

To be honest I think this is a very small risk and not a significant consideration. There are all kinds of technical risks with the chargig network and abaility to pay, but by the same token there are all kinds of risks to fuel supplies and the ability to pay - such as tanker driver strikes, for example. It may in theory be possible to use cash to buy diesel if the credit card machines go down, but that only works if you carry enough cash with you. Evidence shows that the majority of people now use cards even for small transactions like buying a cup of coffee so I think it would be very unlikely most people would have enough cash to pay for fuel. And of course, cash machines can also fail restricting your access to cash, so you're back to where you are with technical issues preventing you paying.

mmmmikey

JKenH wrote: »

It can happen

Yes, but planes can and do crash, people get struck by lightning or attacked by sharks, tanker drivers go on strike, etc. etc. The question really is not whether it can happen but is it likely enough to happen to make it a serious risk.


EDIT: as an afterthought it occurs to me that you really seen to be arguing about cash vs: electronic payments which is a much broader issue and not really specific to BEVs. See this for Martin's view on cash.....



https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/tips/25-09-2019/

EricMears

JKenH wrote: »

If you are in your EV on your way home where you can charge for free you might know you can get there ok with limited range left. But what happens if you get stuck on the motorway in a 10 mile tailback of slow moving traffic, it turns dark and starts to snow. Will you still make it or will you be going home on the back of a recovery truck?

Whilst a petrol or diesel engine vehicle will 'drink' fuel in a slow moving queue, there's very little effect on a BEV's range when forced to slow down. If anything, it probably becomes more economical at 5mph although you might need to factor in increased use of heater if you're delayed in cold weather.

JKenH

mmmmikey wrote: »

To be honest I think this is a very small risk and not a significant consideration. There are all kinds of technical risks with the chargig network and abaility to pay, but by the same token there are all kinds of risks to fuel supplies and the ability to pay - such as tanker driver strikes, for example. It may in theory be possible to use cash to buy diesel if the credit card machines go down, but that only works if you carry enough cash with you. Evidence shows that the majority of people now use cards even for small transactions like buying a cup of coffee so I think it would be very unlikely most people would have enough cash to pay for fuel. And of course, cash machines can also fail restricting your access to cash, so you're back to where you are with technical issues preventing you paying.

Tanker drivers do strike of course but that tends to make the news and garages usually have some stock of fuel so we can plan around that.

If you turn up at a charging point and it unexpectedly won’t take your card you are marooned miles from home. As I said glitches do occur (ask Nat West) and I don’t know if there is a way round it to get electricity from a charging point.

I use contactless frequently but always like to have some cash on me for emergencies.

It isn’t just theoretically possible to buy stuff with cash, a lot of people actually do by preference. And they don’t all get their cash out of cash machines - builders, gardeners, cleaners, all sorts of trades are paid cash in hand. You have only to go to a supermarket check-out in our part of the world and see the number of people paying £100 shopping bills in cash.