Bought a stolen Macbook on Ebay.

SHAFT

eugene2878 wrote: »

Dear, Ebay
Date:
3rd August 2019
METROPOLITAN POLICE SERVICE
Telephone:
Email: ********@met.police.uk
I am contacting you with regards to a recent burglary in which an Apple MacBook was stolen. This happened on the 9th May 2019.
The serial number for this is C02S****FVH3.
There were no lines of enquiries to investigate and the report was subsequently closed until 25th June 2019 when a member of Apple Highcross contacted the original owner stating that her laptop was ready for collection.
It appears that the laptop in question was sold on your website to a MR ***** on 19th June 2019. The original owner had not registered the device as stolen and as such has not had any markers placed on it via CheckMend. An NMPR check shows the same information.
I believe Mr ***** has innocently purchased the laptop and as it unfortunately had been stolen, is now back with its original owner. This means that Mr ***** is now out of pocket and out of a laptop.

Ok so far you've avoided any questions about any details you have for the seller. If you answer that question your next course of action can be established.

AaronDH

Here's my thoughts on this.


The police took a burglary report in May 2019. They failed to put the serial number on the National Mobile Property Register (NMPR) as stolen property and therefore it did not show as stolen on CheckMEND (NMPR is the police side of a database operated by Recipero to allow consumers, second-hand dealers, police, insurers etc share info about stolen property, CheckMEND is the bit of the database used by second hand traders (and anyone who wants to check the history of something they are buying). Of note, any checks done on CheckMEND are recorded so you should be able to see if the seller or eBay checked it).


I note the police officer states the original owner did not register it as stolen (they can do so via immobilise.com which is the consumer end of the Recipero database), this seems disingenuous; IMO the police should have listed it as stolen it on the NMPR rather than relying on the complainant to do this. The reasons it didn't happen are probably down to the complainant not having the serial number to hand at the time they made the report to police (and it subsequently not being followed up by either party) or the officer not entering it into the right places on the computer system.


The fact it was not shown on the NMPR means that the eBay seller can turn round and say he did not know it was stolen (I think eBay can do some kind of automated checkMEND checks and anyone can pay to access checkMEND). All he needs to show (on the balance of probabilities) is that he purchased the item in good faith and for value.


I would ask if the police if they have interviewed the seller on suspicion of handling of stolen goods. Chances are they haven't; it's likely they won't pursue this because all the seller needs to say is "I buy and sell laptops, I paid a fair price for this one, it wasn't showing as stolen on CheckMEND. I did not know it was stolen" that will scupper any case against them so the police won't bother.


Do you still have access to the original listing - does it give details about the history of the item or whether it was checked on checkMEND - is there grounds to show the seller lied about the past of the item? E.g. did they say "I've owned this since July 2018..." something you could use to show they lied?


In short people who buy stolen items have next to no rights. There is case law on the subject. Unless you can show the seller did not possess the laptop on good faith (with the rights of the owner to sell it), you might struggle to claim against them (or via eBay/PayPal).


I do wonder if it's worth speaking to PayPal on the phone - I had a claim rejected because of their automated systems. I could do nothing more with it online. When I actually spoke to someone they overode the decision after it was passed to their internal decision makers.


Some other areas to consider:


1) Ask the police why the laptop was not entered as stolen onto the NMPR - all police officers can have access to the NMPR and can make stolen reports; furthermore many crime systems automatically feed the NMPR *if* serial numbers are correctly captured from theft complainants and entered. Could there be a case against the police if they've failed in their duty? You will be able to obtain sanitised versions of crime working sheets which will show which investigative actions have been carried out by making a Data Protection Request (*not* a Subject Access Request though)


2) Can you ask the police if the original complainant's insurance paid out. If so they may no longer have rights to the laptop (because they took the claim money); it might be in those circumstances the insurance company will do a deal with you


Good luck

AaronDH

SHAFT wrote: »

Surely you mean suspect and interview rather than statement, I'm sure PACE came before ebay.

Suspects of a crime being interviewed under caution (either under arrest or voluntary attendees) often (under legal advice) provide a written statement at the beginning or end of their interview. They then answer 'no comment' to questions asked by the investigator.



The idea, as others have pointed out, is to get their case across and to try to avoid any inferences being drawn from their refusal to comment on the questions asked of them. It's a good tactic where a solicitor cannot get a feel as to how much evidence the police actually have (saying 'no comment' when the police have evidence the suspect could refute is a bad tactic, conversely giving any kind of account the police can unpick when they have no evidence is also a bad idea) or when the suspect isn't able to give a good account of themself (i.e. lie consistently for 30 minutes).


In this case the seller's prepared statement would probably say:

• I, Joe SMITH, buy and sell laptops. I repair them and sell them for a small profit on eBay. My eBay username is laptops4u1234
• I have been made aware that a Macbook purchased by eugene2878 was stolen in May 2019
• I can say that I purchased this laptop around June 2019. Due to the passage of time I cannot remember who I purchased it from as I often buy them from local people on Gumtree
• I would have paid a reasonable amount of money for it; I cannot remember the exact amount due to the passage of time. However it would have been around £xxx which is a fair value considering I had to repair it
• I pay cash for all items I purchase
• I did not know the item was stolen until I was contacted by eBay. I had no reason to suspect it was stolen; I even checked it on checkMEND
• I deny handling stolen goods

Suspects can also (under PACE) provide a written statement to police but this is very rare; I believe it's usually used where someone perhaps wants to prempt the fact they are about to be arrested (think white collar crime) or they want to give important information between being charged and their first court appearance.

eugene2878

AaronDH wrote: »

Some other areas to consider:


1) Ask the police why the laptop was not entered as stolen onto the NMPR - all police officers can have access to the NMPR and can make stolen reports; furthermore many crime systems automatically feed the NMPR *if* serial numbers are correctly captured from theft complainants and entered. Could there be a case against the police if they've failed in their duty? You will be able to obtain sanitised versions of crime working sheets which will show which investigative actions have been carried out by making a Data Protection Request (*not* a Subject Access Request though)


2) Can you ask the police if the original complainant's insurance paid out. If so they may no longer have rights to the laptop (because they took the claim money); it might be in those circumstances the insurance company will do a deal with you


Good luck

1. Might be a case of original owner not knowing the serial number despite having his/her icloud account loggen in Macbook. Even when you log in into you icloud account you can not see the full serial.



2. I will try to request this information from police.

SHAFT

eugene2878 wrote: »

1. Might be a case of original owner not knowing the serial number despite having his/her icloud account loggen in Macbook. Even when you log in into you icloud account you can not see the full serial.



2. I will try to request this information from police.

They're unlikely to give you that.

Have you managed to obtain any of the sellers details?

eugene2878

I have address, mobile phone and e-mail.