A Question for Tory Supporters

SpiderLegs

Oh Moby, it really is bordering on the ridiculous to suggest that Corbyn is responsible for boris chucking a few extra billion at the nhs.

The level of desperation in momentum-led labour is off the scale. No criticism of Corbyn or the policies under any circumstances. Blame it all on Brexit (not their specific Brexit policies, just on the general term).
The policies are great. Everyone loves them. Corbyn won the argument.

Let me spell it out very clearly.

Labour won nothing.

Moby

SpiderLegs wrote: »

Oh Moby, it really is bordering on the ridiculous to suggest that Corbyn is responsible for boris chucking a few extra billion at the nhs.

The level of desperation in momentum-led labour is off the scale. No criticism of Corbyn or the policies under any circumstances. Blame it all on Brexit (not their specific Brexit policies, just on the general term).
The policies are great. Everyone loves them. Corbyn won the argument.

Let me spell it out very clearly.

Labour won nothing.

Don't agree... I come on here for debate....not yah boo your lot lost. Democracy continues.....even after we leave the EU and I'm making the argument that Corbyn, (at least) has forced the tories into blue collar toryism. As for Corbyn.....I was never a believer. I voted for other candidates that stood against him, .....Andy Burnham and Owen Smith....not because of policies but I suspected he was unelectable....but he won and he was our leader and I then backed him.....remember the members decide who the leader is in the Labour Party! Now he is going... the debate starts again. I will be supporting either Yvette Cooper, (if she stands) or Lisa Nandy.

SpiderLegs

Moby wrote: »

I will be supporting either Yvette Cooper, (if she stands) or Lisa Nandy.

Nandy is the sensible choice. So she has got no chance .

MaxiRobriguez

Moby wrote: »

Don't agree... I come on here for debate....not yah boo your lot lost. Democracy continues.....even after we leave the EU and I'm making the argument that Corbyn, (at least) has forced the tories into blue collar toryism. As for Corbyn.....I was never a believer. I voted for other candidates that stood against him, .....Andy Burnham and Owen Smith....not because of policies but I suspected he was unelectable....but he won and he was our leader and I then backed him.....remember the members decide who the leader is in the Labour Party! Now he is going... the debate starts again. I will be supporting either Yvette Cooper, (if she stands) or Lisa Nandy.

They weren't forced into anything, they chose to step on the ground of investment and protecting the NHS to neutralise our threat. They knew they had the other arguments won by a mile including a coherent Brexit position, a leader viewed more prime miniisterial and perceived economic competence.

If Corbyn had argued for harsh austerity measures then Johnson probably would have stepped on that ground. It's just what you do to stop a potential gap whereby you can lose support or the other party gain support. If you're promising the same things apart from the things you know you're better on...

We need to elect someone electable, whiter than white and not get drawn into policies which are either too complex or lacking moral integrity. Only then will we stand a chance.

jimi_man

nigelbb wrote: »

51.5% of the votes last Thursday went to parties supporting another referendum. Only 46.4% went to parties supporting leaving the EU.

It's only because of the quirks of FPTP that the Tories have a majority of seats let alone such a large one. The total number of votes cast for the Tories was only 300,000 up on 2017 yet they got nearly 50 more seats.

Can you show your workings on this one please? As far as I can see the Conservatives didn't support another referendum - 43.6%, neither did the Brexit party - 2% and the primary position of the Liberal Democrats was not to support another referendum but to revoke Article 50 - 11.6% = 57.2%. Irrespective of anyone else, that means that there cannot be any more than 42.8% who did support another referendum?

jimi_man

Arklight wrote: »

Well, we have a majority right wing government run by posh privileged thickos acting as puppets for a mendacious unelected psychopath, endorsed by a supine gullible electorate who will do whatever Rupert Murdoch tells them - as long as it involves kicking foreigners out.

So I'm sure it will all be fine.

This isn't directed at you since I get that you're angry, and therefore you're lashing out. But it's not exactly the end of the world. And it's not as if it's a once only chance to have a new government. Elections are fairly regular - at least every five years. How do you think non Labour voters felt between 1997 and 2010? Be angry and bitter, then try and move straight to acceptance.

The thing is that what you're doing, essentially being particularly offensive to those who voted differently from you, is a tactic that's been used quite heavily over the last four years. Fuelled by the Guardian as well as stuff like the Daily Mash, people have been spouting bile about racist, xenophobic, selfish, arrogant, thick, uneducated, bigoted Brexit fascists from when the Referendum was first mooted. As well as coming across as highly intolerant and exclusive from a supposedly tolerant and inclusive section of society, not only has it done the Left wing absolutely no good whatsoever but it just doesn't work!!! What did they think was going to happen - 'Oh, yes, you're right, I am a racist thicko, gosh sorry'. Coupled with Labour's failure to understand and accept the Referendum decision, it's driven people away and into the arms of the Tories and gave them a huge majority. You can call politicians what you like, that's considered fair game, but when you start insulting a section of the electorate and persist with it over a period of years, then be prepared to for them not to like it.

Furthermore, some of your posts are deeply questionable. One poster MaxiRob, who described himself as a long time Labour voter who voted Labour this time and who is clearly equally disappointed about the result and was merely trying to accept and move on; you turned on him and said 'I can only assume you are one of these newly minted Tory voters. If you seriously think life in the Labour heartlands is about to get better under "Boris". I am afraid you are either astonishingly trusting, startlingly naive, or attempting to convince yourself you haven't just made the worst voting decision in your life. '
If you can't see that that sort of attitude is just wrong, especially against a similar voter, then I really hope you do soon.

Leaving aside all political stuff. The UK, apart from the weather, is still one of the happiest places to live in the world.

HRH_MUngo

The insults and name-calling emanate in the vast majority from people who say they support a 'kinder politics'.


Jeremy Corbyn has called for an end to "personal abuse" in his first speech to the Labour Party Conference as leader.

My Corbyn urged delegates to "treat people with respect" and said there would be "no rudeness from me".

"Cut out the personal abuse, cut out the cyber-bullying and especially the misogynistic abuse online and let's get on with bringing real values back into politics", he said.

29 Sep 2015 BBC News

scaredofdebt

Money is power, the money wants more money so here we are.

zarf2007

One for Arklight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcuoEVcsLcs

Matt_L

zarf2007 wrote: »

One for Arklight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcuoEVcsLcs

Thats actually a very accurate portrayal of what happened, refreshing....

A perfect example is john, a member here that calls anyone that doesn't support Corbyn, stupid, think and clueless...