No deal Brexit or Corbyn government?

Herzlos

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

The only reason he has been forced to possibly accept an extension is because the toddler Corbyn wanted to try to make him look bad.

He is bad, and Corbyn is just exposing it.


Johnson is being forced to accept an extension because he made a terrible job of getting a deal and making a big deal of leaving on time even though it wasn't going to happen. He's now going to have to be exposed to the electorate as an unreliable liar, again. It won't matter because he's made of Teflon.

Corbyn is playing politics

And so is Johson, but Corbyn is running rings around him.


The silly thing is all the idiots trying to make Boris look bad are simply making themselves look bad, they are playing with the future of the country and forcing the uncertainty to continue.

Corbyn is being forced in directions he does not want to travel, without Brexit he would not be able to nationalise the industries he wants to

Corbyn is anti-EU and there's nothing within the EU stopping nationalized infrastructure. I mean, half of ours is owned by other countries.


What do you actually dislike about Corbyns plan, beyond the risk that you'll be robbed of Brexit via a democratic process?

Moe_The_Bartender

If Corbyn wants to take no deal off the table, he only needs to agree to a GE and include it in his manifesto. I wonder why he won’t.

Sailtheworld

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

If Corbyn wants to take no deal off the table, he only needs to agree to a GE and include it in his manifesto. I wonder why he won’t.

I know that's a rhetorical question and the implication is Corbyn thinks he'd lose an election and wouldn't get to implement his manifesto. Logically therefore it demonstrates the flawed thinking in believing that inclusion in the Labour manifesto takes no-deal off the table.

Johnson came close to promising to take no-deal off the table in his letter to Corbyn. He said in the event of a Tory majority he would push through his great deal. That statement if made by any previous PM of the last generation or two would probably have done but Johnson isn't as trustworthy as any of them.

SpiderLegs

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

If Corbyn wants to take no deal off the table, he only needs to agree to a GE and include it in his manifesto. I wonder why he won’t.

Strange isn’t it. All the things he could put on and take off the table, just by winning the election. He can build his very own bleeding table if he really wants. He can sort out all the long list from arklight no problem. He can have fifteen referenda a year on whatever he wants. He can give us the best workers rights in the universe. All without having to worry about what the tories think.

To steal a much used phrase from our 2nd referendum posse... what is he scared of?

Malthusian

Sailtheworld wrote: »

The brexiteers can't have it all ways. They were all over the idea of a referendum in 2016 but, funnily enough, aren't quite so keen now.

No duh. In 2016 Brexiteers had nothing to lose from a referendum. Now they do. Criticising people for having rational desires and making correct decisions is the act of a political psychopath; it shows a lack of empathy. It is why Remain lost the referendum and failed to convince the UK of the benefits of ever closer union. Instead of trying to win people over and explain why it was in their interests, they scream at them that they are evil racists and cover their faces with spittle.

Telling Brexiteers that they are cowardy cowardy custards if they don't call a referendum that serves no purpose from a Brexiteer perspective (a referendum which Remain had three years to arrange themselves) is not going to get a referendum.

Currently it's Remain with almost nothing to lose; other than pride and the desire not to see the margin of defeat get bigger, which is why they haven't called one already.

Should Remain win a second referendum, Brexiteers will be all over "best of three" and Remain will be dead set against it.

Herzlos wrote:

It's fairly likely a Labour coalition would win a GE

You're starting from the conclusion you want and working backwards again. Herzlos: "I want Labour to win." Reality: "Labour stands absolutely no chance of getting enough seats to win." Herzlos: "No problem, Labour can form a coalition, then they'll have enough." Reality: "But the Lib Dems don't want to..." Herzlos: "LA LA LA LA LA COALITION."

The Lib Dems are not going to form a coalition with Labour as it stands and nobody else has enough seats. Many Lib Dems dislike Labour as much as they dislike the Tories; that's why they vote Lib Dem. (And Lib Dems dislike Labour even more under Corbyn; if it was not being extreme enough that put them off Labour, they'd vote Socialist Worker or Communist or BNP, not Lib Dem.) Labour has a tendency to forget this and view the Lib Dems as confused children who will inevitably come round and fall in line. This just puts the Lib Dems off even more.

A coalition can only work when both sides compromise (as they did in the LibCon coalition). That can't happen in a LibLab coalition, not least because on the biggest issue they face, Labour wants to leave the EU and the Lib Dems want to revoke Brexit without a referendum. This is a binary in-out issue and there is no possible compromise.

Dee_Best

Sailtheworld wrote: »

The brexiteers can't have it all ways. They were all over the idea of a referendum in 2016 but, funnily enough, aren't quite so keen now.

Look, even the supporters of another referendum know they've got somewhere between Bob Hope and no hope.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-secondreferendum/campaign-for-new-brexit-referendum-in-disarray-after-officials-sacked-idUKKBN1X711E

Herzlos

Malthusian wrote: »

You're starting from the conclusion you want and working backwards again. Herzlos: "I want Labour to win." Reality: "Labour stands absolutely no chance of getting enough seats to win." Herzlos: "No problem, Labour can form a coalition, then they'll have enough." Reality: "But the Lib Dems don't want to..." Herzlos: "LA LA LA LA LA COALITION."

Somewhere in the middle - I don't want Labour to win, I'd rather the Tories held onto Brexit until it was eventually cancelled.
Things are all over the place at the moment, so the Tories are most likely to win based on polling right now but Labour are a long way away from "no chance". There are too many wildcards - Will the Brexit Party make a deal with Tories? Will they contest seats anyway? What new scandals will occur between calling and polling?


Though we'll probably end up with a hung parliament and a minority government again, so it's always possible that Labour will still prevent the Tories from doing what they want. We're not going to make any actual progress until we have a referendum with a clear majority for something.

The Lib Dems are not going to form a coalition with Labour as it stands and nobody else has enough seats. Many Lib Dems dislike Labour as much as they dislike the Tories; that's why they vote Lib Dem.

That's fair, the Lib Dems seem to have an "Anyone but Labour" approach. But will they form a temporary alliance to ditch Brexit? Could they resist the power?
They seem happy working with the SNP, which aren't exactly right-of-centre.


The mudslinging and PR going on against Labour right now certainly implies someone is terrified of them.

fewgroats

So now Corbyn's lost we must have gained a No Deal Brexit.

Crashy_Time

fewgroats wrote: »

So now Corbyn's lost we must have gained a No Deal Brexit.

Interesting times, Boris and the Tories know they need to Brexit to survive, the EU can`t let the UK have a "good" Brexit or other countries will also want to leave, meaning the end for sure of the EU project,but they will desperately need good trade deals as well! So it is a classic "Deadly Embrace" situation (especially for the EU?) Very gratifying to see the worst of the democracy destroyers, JS of the Lib Dems for example, put firmly in their place by the power of the people`s vote at a GE though.