No deal Brexit or Corbyn government?

Thrugelmir

Sailtheworld wrote: »

Isn't the important thing with a vote to seek an outcome rather than worry about what it's called?

Let's change the guard first and have a clear understanding of what people actually stand for. Suspect the electorate are generally fed up with ideology over real substance.

Zuzel

Sailtheworld wrote: »

Isn't the important thing with a vote to seek an outcome rather than worry about what it's called?

So you accept a GE will do it then?

Aegis

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Not a referendum then.

Why not? A referendum held under STV rules rather than FPTP is still a referendum.

Sailtheworld

Zuzel wrote: »

So you accept a GE will do it then?

Not really no. A general election should be about general issues and a referendum about a specific issue.

You can't have it all ways. A few years ago a referendum was seen as a great way to find out what people wanted but today brexiteers are all for leaving parliament to sort it out.

SpiderLegs

Sailtheworld wrote: »

Not really no. A general election should be about general issues and a referendum about a specific issue.

Brexit is the very epitome of a general issue, as it impacts on all areas of national policy. I’d rather have a joined up govt that had aligned brexit and domestic policies rather than have them in conflict.

You can't have it all ways. A few years ago a referendum was seen as a great way to find out what people wanted but today brexiteers are all for leaving parliament to sort it out.

Perhaps Brexiteers have had their eyes opened that the referendum they thought was great, is not so great an idea if the d*ckheads who approved it then refuse to carry out the result.
Perhaps the ‘people-who-lost-first-time’s vote’ campaign should consider whether it’s wise to trust the same d*ckheads to carry out whatever it is that they think they would ‘win’ in a re-run?

phillw

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Only one of those things is currently happening, and it will cease to happen as soonas we get Brexit done.

Neither of those things is currently happening, I'm worried about your state of mind.

Boris tries to prorogue government for five weeks for a queen's speech, gets told he can't and when the queen's speech is voted for then he rips it up because he really wants a general election.

Tries to get his brexit deal done, it gets voted to move forward and he suspends it. So he can get the general election he wants.

We had a general election in 2017, after the referendum. It was settled for five years.

What a waste of money Boris is.

Herzlos

SpiderLegs wrote: »

Brexit is the very epitome of a general issue, as it impacts on all areas of national policy. I’d rather have a joined up govt that had aligned brexit and domestic policies rather than have them in conflict.

It's the biggest issue, certainly, but not the only one. If you want to know how people feel about Brexit you need to ask explicitly about that rather than running a GE as a proxy. In a GE people will vote based on all sorts of things from their stance on Brexit* to that time a candidates cat defecated on their lawn.


What's the logic behind the idea that a GE is a great idea whilst a referendum is a terrible idea?
How would you feel about the GE ballot having 2 questions: "Who do you want to run the country?" and "What do you want them to do about Brexit?"



*How does it work for Remainer Tories, or Leaver Lib Dems, and so on?

SpiderLegs

Herzlos wrote: »

It's the biggest issue, certainly, but not the only one. If you want to know how people feel about Brexit you need to ask explicitly about that rather than running a GE as a proxy. In a GE people will vote based on all sorts of things from their stance on Brexit* to that time a candidates cat defecated on their lawn.

Unfortunately we have a parliament that has a minority govt which can propose whatever policies it wants but no real ability to actually do anything about them. Alongside that a majority opposition that does nothing except block.

So no effective government on any issues.
Yet Labour are so scared of being in power they just want someone else to deal with the big issues and sit sniping from the sidelines.

What's the logic behind the idea that a GE is a great idea whilst a referendum is a terrible idea?
How would you feel about the GE ballot having 2 questions: "Who do you want to run the country?" and "What do you want them to do about Brexit?"

That is possibly one of the funniest suggestions ever made. It is
Completely ridiculous.
Utterly impractical.
An absolute waste of time.

No-one from any party would be so stupid as to consider that.

Herzlos

Care to explain why? Because it sounds like you're just dead against anything that actually answers the question "what Brexit do people want?".

SpiderLegs

Herzlos wrote: »

Care to explain why? Because it sounds like you're just dead against anything that actually answers the question "what Brexit do people want?".

You actually think any party is going to write a manifesto and campaign on it, in the knowledge that this ridiculous second question could then scupper anything they actually want to do.

They might end up winning the most seats but have to do the opposite of what they want on brexit. It’s lunacy. Nothing to do with what I think the outcome should be, it’s just a plain stupid idea. Even more stupid than labours current Brexit policy.

As for your second point, that also doesn’t make sense. I have said consistently for months that I wanted a GE to sort this mess out so your idea about what people who don’t agree with your view think is really just your own personal delusion.