Not looking good for expat pensioners after BREXIT !!

bostonerimus

lvader wrote: »

The NHS doesn't just buy drugs and products, a lot of stuff is already outsourced like lab work, compounding, training, servicing. Sometimes it makes sense to outsource and sometimes it doesn't, but the flexibility is important. Once you have politicians putting arbitrary obstacles in the way things start to break down. What I can assure you is that when it comes to outsourcing the location of the company headquarters has zero affect on price or quality.

I hope it stays that way and that in any trade deal with the US things aren't given away. In the US the pharma companies are so powerful that the Federal Medicare system that covers people over 65 is by law NOT allowed to negotiate drug prices. This means that prices are sky high and many people go to Mexico or Canada to buy stuff like insulin where it is a tenth of the price.

I'm lucky as I have good insurance that means that I can afford the cost of healthcare, but the total cost is still quite high. I pay $100/month for good coverage and have a $5k deductible, but my ex-employer pays the rest of the premium which is $450/month. So just think if you had to pay $550/month (450 pounds) for healthcare on top of payroll and income taxes...and that would be closer to $1000 for a family.

Healthcare is a big issue for retirees and UK expat retirees in the EU don't know what will happen in a no deal Brexit scenario. It would be good if the reciprocal healthcare system continues and all the politicians have promised that it will, but it would be nice to be certain of this.

nigelbb

Malthusian wrote: »

We pay enormous fees for medical care right now, they just happen to be absorbed into our taxes. Everyone who has suffered from localised cuts to education services, long term care services, road maintenance, etc, is paying those enormous fees for medical care and for the fetishisation and ringfencing of the NHS.

Medical care in every country costs a lot of money. Providing universal healthcare has to be paid for through taxes. The NHS is remarkably efficient & good value for money not least because of the model of universal free delivery at point of need & no enormous administration overhead for billing those patients & reclaiming on insurance.

nigelbb

Malthusian wrote: »

No argument there, the US system is the worst of both worlds and there is no prospect of introducing it in the UK. It seems we agree that the UK pays enormous health care costs, just not ENORMOUS ones.

All provision of healthcare is costly but the NHS spends a little less than the EU average both per head of population & as a percentage of GDP.

atush

But other countries incl France do have Co-pays, and there is admin that has to be paid for to collect this money.

metrobus

They contribute very little to the UK economy in taxation which everyone one else living here so why should they benefit from others funding central funds.
If they want to benefit from our system stay here and pay into it rather than giving a foreign country the tax take from funds coming from the Treasury.

nigelbb

metrobus wrote: »

They contribute very little to the UK economy in taxation which everyone one else living here so why should they benefit from others funding central funds.
If they want to benefit from our system stay here and pay into it rather than giving a foreign country the tax take from funds coming from the Treasury.

Even someone on maximum state pension is going to pay no income tax & very little in the way of other taxes given that their income will be so low.

bostonerimus

metrobus wrote: »

They contribute very little to the UK economy in taxation which everyone one else living here so why should they benefit from others funding central funds.
If they want to benefit from our system stay here and pay into it rather than giving a foreign country the tax take from funds coming from the Treasury.

UK expat retirees have paid into the system all their working life so why would you want to deny them something they have paid for and also the system is reciprocal. Also, given your logic, people who try to minimise their taxation should be denied benefits.

Malthusian

bostonerimus wrote: »

UK expat retirees have paid into the system all their working life so why would you want to deny them something they have paid for

They got what they paid for - the right not to be jailed for tax evasion, plus a Brucie bonus of access to the NHS while they were living in the UK.

If they are no longer UK tax resident they are now paying into a different system and will get what that system gives them.

Notwithstanding that it may make sense to provide them with some benefits if it saves us paying benefits to people who move the other way and we can afford it.

"I've been coming to this cake shop for 40 years" doesn't mean you're now entitled to free cake.

Also, given your logic, people who try to minimise their taxation should be denied benefits.

If by that you mean tax evasion then yes they should. If by that you mean they aren't paying voluntary extra tax, then clearly not.

bostonerimus

Malthusian wrote: »

They got what they paid for - the right not to be jailed for tax evasion, plus a Brucie bonus of access to the NHS while they were living in the UK.

If they are no longer UK tax resident they are now paying into a different system and will get what that system gives them.

This is currently the case with the addition of the provisions for reciprocal healthcare. The issue is that there is uncertainty about expat status post no deal Brexit and that's just not acceptable particularly when it comes to healthcare. This is the case for EU citizens living in the UK too as many are finding it difficult to get settled status. There's no worry if you aren't an expat, but for people who are it's a terrible situation to be in and the dismissive attitude of some UK consular officials in France that my friend experienced really pushed her to apply for French citizenship as she felt the UK was not interested in protecting her as a UK citizen living in the EU. I've heard similar things from UK expat organizations across the EU which is sad.

[Deleted User]

Malthusian wrote: »

They got what they paid for - the right not to be jailed for tax evasion, plus a Brucie bonus of access to the NHS while they were living in the UK.

The government has stated that NICs are used to build up State Pension. Pensions from other developed countries to people moving to Britain are indexed and paid regardless of where citizen X lives - this is what you had paid for during your working life. UK uniquely penalizes own citizens who live in the Commonwealth countries (but not US or, for now, EU).

There is no logic to this approach.