Electric vehicles miles per KWh

JKenH

Solarchaser wrote: »

Well I kinda see what you are saying.
I guess it's how you view company cars... or perhaps I should have said company vehicles.

One of my mates has a company vehicle, as he calls it, a 2 seater Mercedes..... it's a sprinter van.

I guess alot of people imagine 7 series BMW or fancy jag as company car. And you would imagine from that, middle class, whereas most of my company cars have been company Van's... though cards on the table the current one is a c class merc.

I live in an ex council house in a pretty rough scheme, so I cant ever see me being middle class. I do however have a second hand EV and solar.

I guess I need to read up on socio economic classes, never seen these terms you mentioned.

My first company car was a 848cc Mini followed by a succession of Ford Escorts, Cortina, Rover, Audi, BMW, Citroens and lastly a couple of Volvo estates to transport my son’s racing kart. I never quite reached the dizzy heights of a Merc as a company car although I do have one now. Leasing did transform the company car scene and saw the disappearance of Ford and Vauxhall in favour of Mercedes,Audi and BMW. Now Tesla are set to turn the market upside down again.

NigeWick

What is being forgotten is Transport as a Service. TAAS will be here in a few years when we have completely autonomous electric vehicles. Most people will give up driving because of the monetary benefits. We're looking at a reduction in personal cars of 70-80% which will mean less traffic, less pollution, less road deaths and more money for other things.

I for one can't wait until I can turn my garage into a man cave.

JKenH

NigeWick wrote: »

What is being forgotten is Transport as a Service. TAAS will be here in a few years when we have completely autonomous electric vehicles. Most people will give up driving because of the monetary benefits. We're looking at a reduction in personal cars of 70-80% which will mean less traffic, less pollution, less road deaths and more money for other things.

I for one can't wait until I can turn my garage into a man cave.

I haven’t seen much about this but suspect it is targeted at cities. I can imagine it is great for to and from work and leisure activities (trips to cinema, restaurants etc) in urban areas but how does it work for the week’s family supermarket shop or trip to the tip. Will the transport wait around for half an hour while you load it with all the rubbish from the garage, garden waste etc then vacuum itself out later?

If I live out in the sticks does it have to make a special trip out to pick me up, take me to my destination and then return to base afterwards. Then when I am ready to go home presumably it will come out to collect me, take me home and then return to base. That would be 6 trips instead of 2. Would that not triple the congestion on our roads?

Many of us actually like the idea of having our own car that is just waiting there on the drive.

I am sure there is a place for it but maybe not in Lincolnshire.:)

GreatApe

£22k brand new EV

No idea of this brand or model but seems to be rated highly on hukd

Might be useful to one of you

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/new-mg-zs-excite-fully-electric-suv-now-21995-after-3500-gov-grant-at-mgcouk-3299479?page=2#thread-comments

JKenH

GreatApe wrote: »

£22k brand new EV

No idea of this brand or model but seems to be rated highly on hukd

Might be useful to one of you

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/new-mg-zs-excite-fully-electric-suv-now-21995-after-3500-gov-grant-at-mgcouk-3299479?page=2#thread-comments

Apparently there are rust issues with the MGs.

silverwhistle

JKenH wrote: »

I haven’t seen much about this but suspect it is targeted at cities.

I think this is another of those false dichotomies. The general aim is to cut private mileage. Obviously this is more easily achievable in built up areas with good transport links, but the general principle holds true everywhere.



It's for this reason that I think the best and easiest implementation of a tax regime is by mileage covered as it gives an incentive to cut it. Obviously we'll need some carrots as well as stick. This also wouldn't impact on the desire to have a car available for the convenience.



Based on my MOT in the last year I've done around 3,300 miles which would have been another 1000 almost if we hadn't used GFs van for our annual ski trip. I could probably cut that some more with a bit of incentive, effort and available alternatives. To take an example, I normally use the train to go and watch a football team in a city c. 25 miles away, but occasionally, from necessity due to lack of a service, use the car for late kick offs. Others will be able to think of similar examples.


Today I used the car to transport 7 25kg bags from a DIY shed to my allotment, along with various tools: not a job for a taxi or car share, but as I get my allotment established hope to use the bicycle more often.



There will be the usual moans, but if you want or need to live in the countryside there will be particular costs, if you want or need to live in the city there will be different ones, to go with their respective benefits.



A lot of drivers don't appreciate how many households don't have cars; no current statistics to hand here, but even in the country it is worryingly high and often not recognised by those who say 'what about us rural dwellers' when it comes to cars.

Martyn1981

silverwhistle wrote: »

I think this is another of those false dichotomies. The general aim is to cut private mileage. Obviously this is more easily achievable in built up areas with good transport links, but the general principle holds true everywhere.

Yep, where (locations and tasks) taxi's already operate economically, TAAS will take the business as fast as the vehicles can be rolled out. Then any task somewhere in the window of 20-100% of taxi cost will go next.

Where costs end up we will have to sit and back and wait to see, but if guesses of 20c / 20p per mile are possible, then the disruption will be astonishing, but even at higher prices, if the service is easy, and car parking time and fees are also considered, then short journeys will be easy picking for TAAS.

JKenH

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Yep, where (locations and tasks) taxi's already operate economically, TAAS will take the business as fast as the vehicles can be rolled out. Then any task somewhere in the window of 20-100% of taxi cost will go next.

Where costs end up we will have to sit and back and wait to see, but if guesses of 20c / 20p per mile are possible, then the disruption will be astonishing, but even at higher prices, if the service is easy, and car parking time and fees are also considered, then short journeys will be easy picking for TAAS.

Are we talking 20c/20p/mile per head or per vehicle. If you are a singleton and you call an AEV then does it take you direct to your destination or go round the houses to pick up another 3 passengers?

Martyn1981

JKenH wrote: »

Are we talking 20c/20p/mile per head or per vehicle. If you are a singleton and you call an AEV then does it take you direct to your destination or go round the houses to pick up another 3 passengers?

We will have to wait and see, though for city driving I'd assume that a discounted rate would be available for those choosing to share, and based simply on the number of people at morning/late afternoon peaks, it would most likely pick up people on the way without too much diversion.

Single person/party use would reduce car ownership but not necessarily car journeys, but shared use could reduce the number of vehicles on the road, especially at peak times.

All highly speculative but autonomous tech is advancing rapidly, and more and more trials are being approved. Some potential for 2022+ depending on set backs, bad press, accidents etc, or the opposite given that they will most likely be far safer drivers than humans.

Then it comes down to production and deployment, though Tesla's may already have the tech for software upgrade which leads to the touted potential by Elon of earning an income from current owned Tesla's as taxi's when not needed by the owners.

The next 5yrs will be a blur of disruption on the transport front.

GreatApe

JKenH wrote: »

Are we talking 20c/20p/mile per head or per vehicle. If you are a singleton and you call an AEV then does it take you direct to your destination or go round the houses to pick up another 3 passengers?

My guess is small sized mostly not shared BEVs for urban areas and larger 6 seat (each seat independent with its own door and segregated from each other) diesel cars for higher mileage city to city transport. With something like a model 3 with four independent seats taking the market in between the two with some level of sharing

Sharing makes little sense in urban areas
Your trip might typically be somewhere between 1-5 miles with say 3 miles average
Your not going to be happy for your 3 mile 10 mins trip to become a 4.5 mile 25 mins trip where the taxi picks up different people at different places and drops them off differently.
Also if the cost is say 30p a mile all in then your 3 mile trip is 90p your not going to want to share because cutting 50% off that 90p trip is only saving you 45p but costing you a lot more time and agro

On the other hand sharing and diesel makes a lot of sense for intercity trips.
Your 400 mile trip from London to Edinburgh takes maybe five extra minutes which is acceptable
Your ticket may be £100 for a car all to yourself or £20 shared so it's worth sharing

Each tech used where it is best suited


At some point BEVs might become price competitive for long distance travel in which case they can take over these long distance self drive diesels too. A long range model 3 is £50k and can do 300 miles. This is okay for ranges of about 200 miles max as you don't want to discharge and charge beyond about 20-80%.

So roughly

0-1 mile: feet
1-20 miles: half sized two seat BEVs not shared much
20-200 miles: full sized four seat BEVs some level of sharing
200-1000 miles: diesel cars highly shared six to eight seat. Extra long range BEVs in time.
500-10,000: Airplanes probably still oil

With some overlap of each category