Electric vehicles miles per KWh

almillar

Drifting off topic but only a bit, would you buy a hybrid? Pure EV isn't an option for me because I need to be able to tow a caravan and that pretty much rules out plug in EVs, but there are a few hybrid options like the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV and one of the Golfs. I've been put off by the complexity - should I be?

The Mitsubishi CAN tow, but you would need to check the weight it can take, don't assume it's the same as the disel.

You should also not simply assume that the eGolf/Golf GTE can have a towbar fitted. I don't know the answer. And the question is more 'is it Type Approved in the UK' rather than 'is it possible'. Towing and EVs is still a sticking point, for no technical reason.

EricMears

NigeWick wrote: »

In that case, neither. It behaves like a Hyundai Kona.

For the benefit of the 99% or more of readers who haven't driven a Kona, perhaps you could explain what happens if you choose minimum possible regeneration level (or none at all if allowable) and release the accelerator when going down hill ?

NigeWick

EricMears wrote: »

For the benefit of the 99% or more of readers who haven't driven a Kona, perhaps you could explain what happens if you choose minimum possible regeneration level (or none at all if allowable) and release the accelerator when going down hill ?

It will speed up.

almillar

It will speed up.

Safe then, short of a test drive, to use the analogy that the least regen acts like an ICE automatic, like I described on the Outlander.

JKenH

Interesting comment in a Daily Telegraph article about electric cars.





https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/advice/electric-cars-explained-should-buy-ev-will-save-money/

Reed_Richards

JKenH wrote: »

... so it’s entirely possible that electric cars may one day become as costly to run as petrol or diesel ones are today.

Currently you pay about 60p (59.95p) per litre in fuel duty on petrol and diesel and you pay 20% VAT on the cost of the fuel and on top of the fuel duty. So a litre of petrol costing 120p comprises about 40p worth of fuel, the rest is tax. Meanwhile electricity is taxed at 5%. It seems inconceivable that there won't be some re-balancing done as electric cars become more widely used.

NigeWick

JKenH wrote: »

experts believe that once electric cars reach a saturation point and people are buying less petrol and diesel, the Government will need to recoup revenue lost to the exchequer through the drop in fuel duty by increasing taxes on electricity. Market forces could push up the price of electricity, too, so it’s entirely possible that electric cars may one day become as costly to run as petrol or diesel ones are today.

The most likely outcome is that HMGov will have us fit black boxes to all vehicles so they can charge per mile. Electricity will likely not be going up in price as renewables are making it cheaper. The latest offshore wind projects are coming in at about £10 less per MWh than the current wholesale price.

mmmmikey

JKenH wrote: »

Of course, it’s impossible to predict the future, but experts believe that once electric cars reach a saturation point and people are buying less petrol and diesel, the Government will need to recoup revenue lost to the exchequer through the drop in fuel duty by increasing taxes on electricity. Market forces could push up the price of electricity, too, so it’s entirely possible that electric cars may one day become as costly to run as petrol or diesel ones are today.

The logic here seems a bit questionable. Sure, if tax revenue is lost from reducing petrol and diesel sales it will have to be made up from somewhere else. But why does that have to be from electricity? Why not increase car tax, possibly on the basis of mileage? Or why not increase income tax or VAT generally, come to that? There doesn't seem to be any inherent reason why reducing tax revenue on petrol & diesel can only be recouped by taxing electricity, with all the inherent issues that has....

JKenH

Reed_Richards wrote: »

Currently you pay about 60p (59.95p) per litre in fuel duty on petrol and diesel and you pay 20% VAT on the cost of the fuel and on top of the fuel duty. So a litre of petrol costing 120p comprises about 40p worth of fuel, the rest is tax. Meanwhile electricity is taxed at 5%. It seems inconceivable that there won't be some re-balancing done as electric cars become more widely used.

Looking at it on that basis if electricity was taxed on a similar basis to diesel my typical 60mpg Golf tdi would cost about 5p per mile and our petrol Picanto about 6p per mile.

How much an electric car costs to charge depends on when and where you charge it but would I be right in assuming that the current cost of daytime charging an EV on a standard tariff at home would be around 4p and away from home 7p? Obviously if you have a cheap time of use tariff or solar panels it will be much less but equally using a rapid charger might in some places cost more. The cost per mile could also be increased by partial charging if you are in the habit of topping the car up just in case you don’t know where the next available charger will be. I understand some charging points also charge an admin fee.

For those without access to a home or work charger the fuel cost per mile cost could therefore be of a similar order to that of an ICE or even more if the tax regime was regularised.

At the moment I would imagine most BEVs are bought by people with access to home chargers and solar panels for whom they are very economic but for those without home or work charging the financial incentives are not so clear and the inconvenience of having to go wait somewhere for 30 minutes to charge before you start your journey might prove a disincentive. (The BIK advantages must not, of course, be underestimated but they will tend to go to company car drivers who I would venture are more likely to have off street parking.)

There is a danger therefore in the future that financially supporting BEVs might be perceived as levying a tax on the poor to support the middle class. A similar argument might have been applied to solar panels but surprisingly this has never gained traction ( maybe it is not so discriminatory as there are a lot more houses with roofs than houses with off street parking). In the case of BEVs however the inequity might be more visible and consequently some adjustment might be required for political reasons.

ABrass

The idea of taxing electricity is clearly not going to work. How do you do that for Electric cars but not electric heating?

The simpler, and more likely, approach will be road tax. Even there whilst the cost for electric cars will probably go up, ICE vehicles will skyrocket.