Preston Hospital Failed POPLA Appeal Urgent Help

RoboSelf

I'm a new member and would be grateful for some brief help.

I've never been more offended with the way ParkingEye has treated me. My blood is boiling with the false lies, accusations and fake evidence they have used against me. I've been stitched up and this has become fraudulent in submitting false documents to try and get money out of me.

The story is I was giving a PCN from ParkingEye in April 2019 for parking at Preston Hospital. I am accused of parking in a reserved area for 25 minutes and was given a £75 fine.

I actually work at the hospital and have paid for my own car park permit.
This is where it get's complicated but please bear with me. Preston hospital is one of the biggest hospitals in the country and the car parks are numerous. On site there is easily over 1000 places split between staff and visitors all on open land. The car parks are named in certain zones by alphabetical letters.

The unthinkable happened and Preston hospital awarded ParkingEye the rights to manage the hospital car park in December 2018. Since then they have dished PCN's like anything. The hospital security told me every week hundreds of people ask them about why there getting PCN's.

I later found out that the reserved area I parked in is for directors / senior staff and you need a special permission for this. The problem is that there is no sign anywhere to state this and no mention in my paperwork. I was never aware that there is a sub- zone of a handful of places for special staff. Additionally they have created this special zone and labelled it with the same letter adjacent to a normal zone where anyone can park.

My grounds for appeal are that I have a staff permit and on the signed agreement it states I can park across all staff car parks. I quote from the signed agreement "allows you to park in staff car parks across the the Trust's hospital sites and provides access to the staff car parks." There are no mention of any limitations.
In other hospitals I have worked at the paperwork usually states the warnings of special zones. They also paint the road surface "director" or "high priority" for these handful of special places.

The numerous signs in the hospital state this zone is a staff car park.

Additionally with ParkingEye taking over the whole system is in a mess. The car park documents still describe and reference old systems etc.

I appealed to ParkingEye who quite abruptly refused. I then went through POPLA who unbelievably refused my appeal. I'm speechless and my jaw fell to the floor with the rubbish they wrote. But then I was skeptical as to how an external ombudsman can make sense of a gigantic car car park which they have never seen before.

POPLA stated they cannot use my pictures as they were not time stamped. I did'nt visually time stamp my pictures because I did'nt know I had to. Plus I can back track any date I choose from my digital camera so I don't see how this is authentic. I could put 1999 in my cameras system if I wanted to. Instead the picture is created on it's properties with a time and date when it was created.

ParkingEye submitted evidence of a whitelist stating I do not have a staff permit. This was a lie. I have receipts of payment and have been parking in other zones without any problems every day. The reality is I maybe don't have permission to be in the directors area but in my appeal there is no information anywhere to warn drivers of this. I have been working there for a long time and still never knew this area existed.

As such the hospital has no authority to advise on the parking restrictions within the car park."
This is the biggest load of !!!!!!!!, the hospital trust owns the land and have told me what to do. Am I not to listen to what my employer says.

ParkingEye also uploaded their evidence, which is a birds eye diagram with some drawn on boxes. There evidence has excluded the presence of several extra signs which invite permit holders to enter. There evidence also has the borders for that car park zone vastly different to the signs in the hospital.

POPLA are saying I did'nt upload my car park permit as evidence for them. ParkingEyes signs state you need a permit to park there. Again a paper permit actually does not exist anymore which just proves how confusing the system is and also that POPLA don't know what their taking about.

My biggest problem is I'm suspicious this is a deliberate attempt to lay this trap. The car park is physically undergoing renovation. Signs are present which state permit holders can park. Then officially on the evidence submitted these signs are mysteriously absent. The operator knows I have a valid permit electronically. No explanation has been given to me as to why these places are so important / different. The operators car park plans are wrong, as the signs shows the zone to be much bigger.

So my problem is if POPLA have refused my appeal, what do I do?
Morally I can't live the principal of paying as I deem their behaviour fraudulent / stealing.

MistyZ

I can feel the steam coming off the screen! And I'm not surprised.

It's a shame you didn't come here first for advice re. the POPLA appeal but there again POPLA is not a reliably fair or reasonable body.

You need to complain in writing to the top dog(s) at the hospital. Tone down the (completely understandable) anger but channel it because one letter is unlikely to be the end of it and determination may be required.

Lay it all on the line, step by step, pointing out the many pitfalls for staff without purple prose. I guess you are aware of this(?):

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

Especially this: 'NHS organisations are responsible for the actions of private contractors who run car parks on their behalf.'

The hospital may try very hard to shirk their responsibility to cancel the PCN - they CAN cancel it and must - because it's just so much easier to let individual members of staff go round in circles till they give up & shut up. So if you can join forces with other colleagues who have fallen into PE's trap then so much the better.

Umkomaas

Just a few sentences to point me in the right direction would suffice.

So my problem is if POPLA have refused my appeal, what do I do?

1. Complain to your Estates department (or whichever department has responsibility for car parking).

2. If you are a member of a Trade Union, involve them.

3. Read 'NHS patient, visitor and staff car parking principles' document, then use it to pressurise your employer to get this cancelled.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

4. Prepare yourself for a potential court case, PE are litigious (although not as much as in previous years, yet shouldn't be ignored). Read the guidance on defending court claims as preparation on a worst case scenario, in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2.

5. If this is a general problem for staff and patients at the hospital, consider setting up a Facebook or WhatsApp group to form a fightback group where shared experiences can be collected and actions planned.

6. The other alternative is to pay the charge, put it behind you and move on - add a further contribution to the swollen PE profit line. This is most certainly not a recommendation from me or the forum.

Redx

Only 2 main things that you can do

1) complain to the trust HR dept, same as we would complain to PALS

2) wait for a court claim from PE through the mcol system and let a judge decide, same as everyone else

I assume you read about the UHW and Indigo debacle ?

Plus heard about and supported the campaign at the hospital in Yorkshire or Lincolnshire ?

What does your union say ?

What does your trust say ? Especially when you have told them about the NHS guidelines ?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

From October 2015

And this recent report highlights the issues

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/jul/21/parking-enforcement-penalty-carers-nurses-fines

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/nhs-car-parking-nurses-crowdfunding-a7847456.html

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/more-70-doctors-nurses-taken-13338896

fisherjim

In addition to the above if there are no signs or any other indication you couldn't park there I don't see how they could possibly win in court.


POPLA are very black and white, no explanations using mitigation will be accepted, and of course their argument about time stamps are a bit questionable but they are paid by the BPA, and the BPA is paid by Parking Eye.


I would get time stamped photos now for the inevitable court claim in case the idiots at the hospital don't cancel this, or PE install some.

The_Deep

Read these

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

Has PE complied with these? If not, complain to your PP as nine times out of ten these tickets are scams.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

RoboSelf

Hi Everyone,

Just an update. I did what some suggested and tried complaining to the hospital trust. They forwarded my complaint to carparkinghelpdesk.

I had my reservations about the parking helpdesk because they are nameless, estates office state can't access them. Also they are based in Chorley and down the road is ParkingEye's office if you google search ???

It's very suspicious as in previous hospitals I worked at all parking officers give their names, are approachable in person at their office, and have email addresses in their own names. Anyhow I was directed to complain to their office.

I received quite an odd reply. They answered a few points but basically ignored the chunk of it stating I knew I was parking illegally.

First of all in the reply they have gone to great length to try and prove my guilt. They are describing all the movements I did going into various car parks. They then state I stopped into a reserved car park for 25 minutes, before then leaving to go park in the adjacent one.

I quote "This strongly suggests you knew you couldn’t park in M reserved and parked there until there was a space in M1 and then moved your car."

It sounds like I am speaking to someone from ParkingEye. It's true about my movements but I honestly thought I could park there as all the signs state permit holder. The reason I later left is because when ParkingEye are operating you don't take any chances and go where you normally do as they will try to catch you out.

I have always stated from the beginning I believe I am allowed to park there. They did'nt answer how I broke my hospital permit contract.

In terms of the parking permit they have stated "the application does state you will be given a permit but the new introduction of ANPR camera system in December means this is no longer applicable and permits are not needed as the cameras check each vehicle for parking status. A process of updating the internet and application process is still underway."

They ignored my complaint about the extra signs stating I can park there. Ignored my written contract rights. They ignored how I'm supposed to know about a special reserved area.

They did state that the signed agreement I have for a parking permit was stopped in December 2018 when ANPR came into force.

So this has created a number of problems:
- if I signed and paid for an agreement in Feb 2019, for a system that expired in Dec 2018, I can't see how I can be penalised for it. Unless of course they notify me of the changes which they never did.
- the signs in the car park still refer to permit system to display in your front windscreen, which is what I signed into and paid the money for.
- the car park has two sets of terms and conditions on different signs, one from ParkingEye, and one from Lancashire Teaching Hospitals, each with different rules.
- several signs clearly state "staff permit holders only."
- it does raise the suspicion this is done deliberately.

I was wandering if anyone knows the legality of this? Two sets of terms and conditions.

Redx

seems to me you may need legal advice about this , which you should take to a union rep or solicitor , MSE is a consumer rights forum, not a legal aid or legal help forum

I doubt that anyone mentioned about parking illegally , that would mean a law was broken and as there are no laws to break !!!!!!

it may be trespassing , its certainly not illegal (knowingly breaking a law)

I would complain to my MP citing the NHS guidelines and also write to the CEO of the trust as well, including your suspicions that your complaint was passed to PE instead of being dealt with by the trust themselves , citing a possible a GDPR breach ?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

RoboSelf

Here is a picture of the entry to the car park
hxxps://ibb.co/3zWvgR7

Redx

live link


https://ibb.co/3zWvgR7

waamo

You could send an FOI request to the hospital to see their contract with Parking Eye. It may show something interesting.