This is a tough one!

Blazkowicz

Hello all,
I am very much hoping you can help me. I have a really tough one here. I am at my wits end and significantly affected by the stress.

Firstly I should say that I have read the Newbies thread three times over and also read many of the other threads on cases and example defences – but none of them (that I can find so far) are applicable to my situation/case.

The full details, dating back to the first PCN can be found on Pepipoo (I am not allowed to link it so search: "Ticket for a space I already pay for"

To summarise the facts:
In 2015 I was employed by an Estate Agency.
This Estate Agency paid, in advance, for two numbered spaces in a flat block car park to be used by employees. The payments were made to the freeholder. There was no written contract – simply the invoices to pay for the space (I have the invoice for the time covering the PCN and email from freeholder confirming it was settled in full).
Early in my employment, the freeholder required that their own permits be shown in the car to prove that the lease of the space was paid for.
It is *assumed* that Premier Park were engaged by the freeholder in 2014 or 2015, as signs were erected and permits sent to the Estate Agency to be displayed in accordance with the signs.
The permits were simple, very light paper discs and prone to sun bleaching.
Though I was considerably displeased that private parking ‘cowboys’ had been employed – I did not want to endlessly fight/appeal/litigate against their PCNs so the permit was reluctantly displayed.
On one occasion in summer when the vehicle windows were open during driving, the permit flew our of the window and had to be recovered. To prevent this happening again when the windows were open – the permit was put in full view on the centre console.
In summer 2015, two PCNs were put on the car within a month of each other. I recall that both were appealed through POPLA (who rejected the appeals). In one of these cases – the permit was actually *fully visible* in PP’s photographic evidence. In the other case – reflection on the window obscure the permit in their evidence.
After denying the debt was owed to PP after the POPLA rejection – I heard nothing until this year, when I was contacted by B W L.
They sent two separate letters, one for each PCN. I requested that they provide full evidence for both PCNs.
They have only continued pursuing me for the one where the permit was *not visible in the evidence* (they sent a letter about the other PCN stating that they were communicating with their client about “further evidence” – I have heard nothing further about that PCN and can only assume they are not looking to take it further due to the permit being clearly visible in the PPC’s own evidence).
I complied with the Pre-Action Protocol and submitted a defence (as seen on the last page of the above-linked thread). B W L simply stated that “By parking your vehicle in the car park you have entered into a unilateral contract with our Client.” And that I have breached the contract.
I have now received a claim form from the County Court Business Centre.

Having read so many cases, I cannot find one like this. It is similar to the ‘tickets for parking in your own space’ cases, but I am not a resident of the flat block, do not have a tenancy or lease agreement and it is the Estate Agency that rent to space.
I am unsure as to the best argument for my defence. It is my word against theirs that the permit was displayed as their evidence in this case does not clearly show the permit on the centre console. I am concerned that a Judge will simply rule that I was supposed to display a permit on the windscreen and did not, and as I had displayed a permit in all other instances I had clearly recognised the authority and contract of the PPC therefore I must pay for the breach of contract.
I have completed the AOF and am sending today.
My current defence ideas are:

I strongly dispute the statement that the driver's “only right to enter the land in question is on the terms and conditions that apply”. This is simply not the case. I had an existing rental agreement directly with the freeholder for the car parking space I was parked in.
As an employee of the Estate Agency who had paid in full for lease of the space and thus land-holder, I was fully authorised to park and the display of a permit is irrelevant to this lease.
The parking company have already proven in their other PCN that a permit was visible on the centre console. It was the same in this case.
There was no loss to the landowner as they were fully paid. The only individuals who could be negatively affected by unauthorised vehicles parked in the space were the employees of the land-holding estate agent. As I was one of them it is none-sensical to issue me a PCN to punish me for parking in a space I was authorised to park in.
(I have read that no-loss arguments may not work..)
Overall – I am determined not to let them get away with this, on principle alone I cannot let them win, however I really need help. I know I have done NOTHING wrong and strongly feel that I should not pay anything. But I don’t know how to argue that compellingly and ‘compliantly’.

Redx

Barry Beavis had done nothing wrong in his overstay on a free car park with no loss to either the landowner or Parking Eye, yet he lost in 3 courts, the last one being the Supreme court in London

Be careful in thinking you may prevail when he failed and the SC decision is binding on lower courts

Blazkowicz

I would say that my case differs from Beavis vs. Parking Eye because:

It was not a pay and display carpark, it is a leased space paid in full.
Beavis overstayed. My car was there within the paid leased period.

I was heartened by the below comment on the Newbie thread and that's why I have posted here:

"If you get court claim, do not panic, we assist people & some 99% of cases here, win!
ALMOST NO-ONE REPORTS A LOSS - YOU DON'T NEED TO WASTE MONEY ON A SOLICITOR OR ANY COMPANY - WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE DOING, WE HAVE A HIGHER SUCCESS RATE THAN ANYWHERE, AND WE HELP FOR FREE."

Maybe it's not got a chance to win and I should let B W L get away with it, but I am prepared to go all the way to the end against them, if people just roll over they will prey on more people.
I just need some advice on how to go about this and what defence to build.

DoaM

Well for a start their claim probably includes for £60 debt recovery costs ... costs that they have not incurred. Claiming this sum is an abuse of process (as stated recently by a District Judge).

Blazkowicz

Yes they describe this as "£60 contractual costs pursuant to PCN Terms and Conditions.". The £60 charge was threatened on the signs onsite.

KeithP

Blazkowicz wrote: »

I have now received a claim form from the County Court Business Centre.

I have completed the AOF and am sending today.

By 'AOF' I assume you mean Acknowledgment of Service?
Do not send that until you have read the guidance that will follow in my next post.

What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

Blazkowicz

Hi KeithP,
Sorry - yes the Acknowledgment of Service. It's in an envelope next to me ready to post.
The Issue Date is 17 July 2019. So I give it until August 14th that I can compile and send my defence?

Le_Kirk

You don't post it, you do it on-line through MCOL. Did you get log-in and password information with your court claim letter?

KeithP

Blazkowicz wrote: »

The Issue Date is 17 July 2019.

With a Claim Issue Date of 17th July, you have until Monday 5th August to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox file linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread. About ten minutes work - no thinking required.

Having done the AoS, you have until 4pm on Monday 19th August 2019 to file your Defence.

That's a month away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.


When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:

Print your Defence.
1. Sign it and date it.
   
2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
   
3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
   
4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
   
5. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
   
6. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to keep you under pressure.
   
7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.

Blazkowicz

Thanks for that KeithP!
I had tried that dropbox link before but I think it's dead - it always goes to "This page cannot be displayed"

Do you have any advice on strong points for defence?

KeithP

Blazkowicz wrote: »

Thanks for that KeithP!
I had tried that dropbox link before but I think it's dead - it always goes to "This page cannot be displayed"

Just tried it again. It works for me.

May be something at your end - works computer not allowing Dropbox links perhaps?

Blazkowicz wrote: »

Do you have any advice on strong points for defence?

Sorry, not my forte, but of course you could base your Defence on one of the many examples linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES thread.