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Complicated Probate case... sigh

edited 14 June 2019 at 4:05PM in Deaths, Funerals & Probate
127 replies 7.8K views
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  • edited 15 June 2019 at 11:19PM
    Adams18Adams18 Forumite
    109 posts
    edited 15 June 2019 at 11:19PM
    It is looking like the 25% is after 80k paid off so only 20k off the 25% share.

    Yep..

    60K off of my moms share, and 20k off of dad's potential estate.
  • Adams18Adams18 Forumite
    109 posts
    theoretica wrote: »
    So at the moment, you have a house worth £500k with claims against it for £80k by the bank and up to £105k by the partner - and complications about who can access what, when.



    The bank are going to get their £80k - they can get it the easy way by you paying it, or they can get it the hard way by repossessing. If they repossess they would have charges and little motivation to get the very best price so this would probably be a financially poor decision - you and your mother could well lose lot of money going that route.


    Is the partner claiming the whole or a portion of your father's estate?

    Precisely as you say, risk the bank selling at an unfavourable price, or try and take back control myself by paying up and figuring out whether to sell or keep on my terms.

    She is claiming for the entire 25%.
  • Adams18Adams18 Forumite
    109 posts
    xylophone wrote: »
    The banks were happy to allow you to deal with your father's affairs even though you have not applied to be the PR?

    Was the house originally wholly owned by your mother but she permitted your father to borrow £80,000 using the property as security?

    The divorce settlement allowed him 25% of the value of the property on your mother's death or re-marriage?

    For the past two years you have been using this money to pay the interest owed by your father? Or you are holding the money in a separate account to meet (partially) the repayment of the £80,000?


    Yes the bank gave it to me as I gave them full documentation on who I was (birth certificate), I believe in these situations where there is little money in the deceased account the bank is flexible... UK laws on property and trusts in respect to probate and estates if far more stringent.

    They flexible with giving away money to those who request it in the event of someone passing away provided they sign an indemnity form meaning if it is found that you weren't who you claimed to be or that you were NOT authorised to take money out of the deceased bank accounts you must return it or face prosecution.

    The house never belonged to my mom prior... my father bought it, owned it, took out the mortgage, my mom couldnt even read or speak english at that point in time she just came to the country. Father had been here 15 years prior.

    Property was transferred to my mom in 1998, then transferred into joint names in 2004 regarding legal ownership. And the beneficial interest (the equity) was split 25% to my dad and 75% to my mom, but my dad only gets paid if the house is sold, if my mom remarries or if my mom dies.

    I haven't used any money to pay the mortgage interest payments except what I have been earning from my job. I've been paying for 6 years since I started working.
  • Adams18Adams18 Forumite
    109 posts
    After listening to everyones viewpoints it seems paying up and then dealing with the claimant/25% as things unfold more seems the way to go.

    Letting the bank sell the house is risky, have no clue what they would sell it for... I know it wouldn't be something silly because they have a duty to sell for a reasonable price... but will always be below market value.

    Deep down inside me, and my mother, I don't believe I owe the claimant anything the same way I feel I didnt owed my father anything. While he was alive we wanted to raise a case of TLATA to show that he doesnt deserve anything because he never made any payments towards this house. And I and my mother have maintained it financially, with supporting documentation/invoices.

    But the claimant does have a claim in the UK court of law, and it is against my fathers (potential) estate, which I have to respect.

    Property prices are high in london, losing the house could be bad choice, paying 80k and holding on to it could be a better investment. I also have my own life to live, and may have wanted to have my own property instead of being tied down with a remortgage or potentially paying out the claimaint with a loan.

    I'll have to wait and see what happens from the claimants side following probate proceeding, and speak to the bank about the situation.

    It's so stressful because I grew up in this home.
  • Adams18Adams18 Forumite
    109 posts
    I would appreciate any advise on probate if anyone has done it... in terms of what to state on the forms? A poster mentioned 25% on trust with 80k Debt.. and state the value of the property at the time of death?
  • MovingForwardsMovingForwards Forumite
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    It's your dad's 25% at date of death,

    You then need to add what all his assets were ie bank accounts/ savings etc

    Less debts / mortgage / funeral costs

    = the value of his estate.
  • edited 16 June 2019 at 1:56AM
    Savvy_SueSavvy_Sue Forumite
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    edited 16 June 2019 at 1:56AM
    [STRIKE]Can I please check one VITAL detail.

    You refer to your late father's 'partner'. At one point she claimed to be his wife. WERE THEY IN FACT MARRIED?

    Because if they were, that may change the situation.[/STRIKE]

    OK, read the 'other' thread. You're sure they weren't married, so it's a claim under the dependency act. You're right, your father could have married her, or left a will. But I can understand her feeling 'entitled', they were together for a substantial chunk of time. I'm not saying she is ...
    Still knitting!
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  • getmore4lessgetmore4less Forumite
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    What did the divorce settlement say about who pays the interest on the mortgage?
  • Sea_ShellSea_Shell Forumite
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    Just thinking ahead for the future, assuming this all gets sorted favourably.

    How old is your Mum and is she in good health? How old are you? You seem very young if you only started work 6 years ago.

    Can your Mum afford the upkeep of the house on her own? Is she allowed to sell the property?

    If you've ploughed £80k into your Mum's house and you can't release your 25% unless a trigger event occurs how do you propose to live an independent life once you eventually move out with or without a partner of your own?

    Do you have other savings? You won't qualify as a first time buyer if you did want to buy.

    Just thinking out loud.
    " That pound I saved yesterday, is a pound I don't have to earn tomorrow ":beer: JOB DONE!!
    This should now read "It's time to start digging up those Squirrelled Nuts"!!! :j:j:j
  • edited 16 June 2019 at 8:32AM
    Sea_ShellSea_Shell Forumite
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    edited 16 June 2019 at 8:32AM
    Can someone even bring a claim under "dependency" if the estate is intestate?

    They've not been left out of a will, if there was no will.


    * Edit apparently so....see

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1975/63
    " That pound I saved yesterday, is a pound I don't have to earn tomorrow ":beer: JOB DONE!!
    This should now read "It's time to start digging up those Squirrelled Nuts"!!! :j:j:j
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