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Complicated Probate case... sigh

edited 14 June 2019 at 4:05PM in Deaths, Funerals & Probate
127 replies 7.8K views
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  • edited 17 June 2019 at 9:46PM
    Manxman_in_exileManxman_in_exile Forumite
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    edited 17 June 2019 at 9:46PM
    I don't want to make this any more complicated than it already is, but...


    1. Simple answer I hope, but do the OP and the mother have any sort of problem in that they didn't notify the lender two years ago that the father had died? Or is there no problem because they kept up the interest payments? (EDIT: just realised Land Registry poster has raised this too).


    2. I still find it difficult to believe that the divorce settlement 20 years ago in respect of the house, provided for the mother's death but not the father's? It would be interesting to see the actual wording.
  • Tom99Tom99 Forumite
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    I still find it difficult to believe that the divorce settlement 20 years ago in respect of the house, provided for the mother's death but not the father's? It would be interesting to see the actual wording.
    I would have thought that was quite normal because its the wife who has the life tenancy.
    What happens to the father's assets on death would be a matter for his will if he chose to have one.
  • nom_de_plumenom_de_plume Forumite
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    A question for Land Registry. If the OP were to pay off the outstanding mortgage, could he register a charge on the property (with the current restrictions in place) to secure that as being perhaps a loan to his mother?


    Thank you for your input to this and other threads BTW.
  • Land_RegistryLand_Registry Organisation Representatives - Private Messages may not be monitored
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    A question for Land Registry. If the OP were to pay off the outstanding mortgage, could he register a charge on the property (with the current restrictions in place) to secure that as being perhaps a loan to his mother?


    Thank you for your input to this and other threads BTW.

    A registered charge, No. the form A restricts the sole surviving legal owner from taking receipt of capital monies on any disposition by her. So that catches a sale and mortgage in her name only.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to [email protected] This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • Land_RegistryLand_Registry Organisation Representatives - Private Messages may not be monitored
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    I don't want to make this any more complicated than it already is, but...


    1. Simple answer I hope, but do the OP and the mother have any sort of problem in that they didn't notify the lender two years ago that the father had died? Or is there no problem because they kept up the interest payments? (EDIT: just realised Land Registry poster has raised this too).


    2. I still find it difficult to believe that the divorce settlement 20 years ago in respect of the house, provided for the mother's death but not the father's? It would be interesting to see the actual wording.

    I think this is the crux of the issue and why the OP says they have spent thousands of pounds on legal advice. And as the Father left no will his partner appears to have some leverage which presumably only the courts have a final say on, if it gets that far

    The divorce agreement/court order, the purpose of the mortgage and how his death has impacted, plus the partner's claimed entitlement (what did the solicitor advise on that point?) remain unclear to me at least. But all of that is separate from the legal ownership so I very much doubt I can add anything more to the mix as a result
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to [email protected] This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • Adams18Adams18 Forumite
    109 posts
    I think this is the crux of the issue and why the OP says they have spent thousands of pounds on legal advice. And as the Father left no will his partner appears to have some leverage which presumably only the courts have a final say on, if it gets that far

    The divorce agreement/court order, the purpose of the mortgage and how his death has impacted, plus the partner's claimed entitlement (what did the solicitor advise on that point?) remain unclear to me at least. But all of that is separate from the legal ownership so I very much doubt I can add anything more to the mix as a result

    I am just reading the last correspondence I got back from the Land Registry in March -

    My mother removed fathers name from the register, and official copy was enclosed.

    The register contains the following restriction which was not removed as part of the application: "No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except by a trust corporation) under which capital monies arises is to be registered except under an order of the Court"

    "Although the property now has only one registered owner, we cannot remove the restriction until we are satisfied that it is no longer required"


    "The restriction will no longer be required if the remaining registered owner has also become the sole beneficiary, and nobody else has a beneficial interest in the land.

    "While it remains on the register, this restriction will stop the registration of any disposition (such as sale or mortgage) made by a single surviving registered owner unless the court has ordered it. If the trust is continuing, a second trustee can be appointed to act with you in order to comply with the restriction.


    Proprietorship register

    (2004) PROPRIETOR: My mother
    (2004) RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except by a trust corporation) under which capital monies arises is to be registered except under an order of the Court
    ... plus others about some generic covenants on the land for transfer to proprietor

    Charges register

    Two other charges here (old stuff) plus this ones:

    (2010) Proprietor: SANTANDER UK PLC of Deeds Services, address etc..
  • Adams18Adams18 Forumite
    109 posts
    I don't want to make this any more complicated than it already is, but...


    1. Simple answer I hope, but do the OP and the mother have any sort of problem in that they didn't notify the lender two years ago that the father had died? Or is there no problem because they kept up the interest payments? (EDIT: just realised Land Registry poster has raised this too).

    We were both worried we would lose the house, and we were aggressively saving by that point (for a number of years) to prepare for when the day comes.

    2. I still find it difficult to believe that the divorce settlement 20 years ago in respect of the house, provided for the mother's death but not the father's? It would be interesting to see the actual wording.

    My mother had partial power of attorney on his mortgage account, which would have ceased when he passed except the lender don't know he has passed yet and thus they have continued to accept interest payments and arrears from my moms account.

    The original wording from the last amended court order:

    The property is to be transferred from Mr Dad to the Co-owners as tenants in common in unequal shares on the basis that on sale of the property the net proceeds of sale are to be divided 75% to Ms Mom and 25% to Mr Dad.

    The Earlier Order further provided inter alia that Mr Dad shall not be entitled to sell the property until the earlier of the following events has occurred:-

    1. Ms Mom should die
    2. Ms Mom should re-marry


    Both mom and dad signed the document as a deed in presence of witnesses
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