Complicated Probate case... sigh

getmore4less

The caveat has made the problem.

Intestate with caveat no one can get a grant.

Mortgage in deceased name only needs grant.

There must be something on the register since the land reg won't proceed without a grant.

MovingForwards

An advert in the law gazette and a local paper to where his dad lived will reveal any other unknown debts, especially if the partner doesn't disclose any.

I assume OP has his dad's papers from the paper so can go through them and establish any debts.

As pointed out in £80k comes off the 25% value at the date of death of the property, I would suggest getting it revalued again by the guy who did it 6m after your dad died.

The cost of the funeral, wake and probate application with associated fees also comes out the estate.

Starting to look like the pot the partner is chasing is a lot smaller than she thought...

Make sure you screen print the comments from the other thread, and this one, as guidance just in case one accidentally gets deleted!

Hopefully, you are now confident this can get unraveled

getmore4less

It is looking like the 25% is after 80k paid off so only 20k off the 25% share.

xylophone

I definitely dealt with his bank accounts, and closed them, even though several thousand were siphened off his bank account following his death, I reclaimed the money via fraud/police

The banks were happy to allow you to deal with your father's affairs even though you have not applied to be the PR?

Was the house originally wholly owned by your mother but she permitted your father to borrow £80,000 using the property as security?

The divorce settlement allowed him 25% of the value of the property on your mother's death or re-marriage?


For the past two years you have been using this money to pay the interest owed by your father? Or you are holding the money in a separate account to meet (partially) the repayment of the £80,000?

Manxman_in_exile

I didn't understand the bit about thousands being siphoned out and being recovered with the aid of the police.?


Is it relevant here?


EDIT: I mean the mention by the OP, not the reference by xylophone

[Deleted User]

Sea_Shell wrote: »

Effectively is your father's estate in negative equity? His 25% is worth less than the outstanding £80k mortgage.

You inherit this negative equity, but you have the means to pay off the mortgage, in a similar way that a life insurance would have paid it off.

You inherit his 25%, with its caveats (by this I mean trigger events) still in place.

Surely there are no assets left in the estate for the partner to claim a percentage of.

Yes, and that is what I've just explained to her, the claimant... she doesn't know yet what I intend to do with the mortgage however. If I pay it off, than it's no longer in negative equity, and I'm out of pocket by 80k.

I'll have inherited whatever comes to the estate in the future, pending a claim by the claimant.

[Deleted User]

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

I know it may seem like that if you are coughing up the 80k, but in reality, it's a claim against your dad's estate (albeit comes out of his/your 25%).


Re Sea Shell #50, is your dad's estate insolvent apart from the 25% in the house, and did he have any other debts? I'm just wondering (I certainly don't know!) whether there may be any creditors that may also have a claim on the 25%.

I have no clue if he had any other debts I doubt it, but the claimant has all his documentation, I have nothing. I've just been checking his medical records, and bank statements for the past 6 years before he died. I know he had a credit card with PPI, but thats since been settled/ dealt with the insurer and the bank.

I'd have to do probate and place ad in the gazette to find out... but he has no other assets except for a few thousand in his bank when I closed it.

[Deleted User]

getmore4less wrote: »

The caveat has made the problem.

Intestate with caveat no one can get a grant.

Mortgage in deceased name only needs grant.

There must be something on the register since the land reg won't proceed without a grant.

Yeah it did cause a huge problem, when I first got a letter from claimant saying " I am the wife, how do you intend to settle the 25% of the property to me" I panicked.. I had to investigate if she was really the wife.

Solicitor instructed me to do a caveat to buy me time and prevent anyone doing anything with the estate

, I did it, and she made an appearance on the cavear... and then caveat was made permanent by the country court removable only by court order.

We were able to remove his name as legal owner at the land registry, but there is a restriction on the property because it is tenants in common, so it prevents the other beneficial interest owner (my mother) from trying to sell or circumvent the 25% that does not belong to her.

It's called Form A restriction: The purpose of the restriction is to ensure that, on the death of one proprietor, the property cannot automatically be sold by the survivor on his own (which could circumvent the rights of the beneficiaries of the deceased’s Will). A ‘replacement trustee’ needs to be appointed to step into the shoes of the deceased and be a party to any transfer alongside the surviving proprietor. If the survivor is entitled to the deceased’s share, in accordance with the terms of the deceased’s Will, the restriction can be removed from the register by supplying a death certificate and a statement from the remaining registered owner showing he is solely entitled both to the legal and the beneficial estate in the property.

So I apply for probate, land registry should be happy I am the inheritor, and then the claimant can perhaps pursue a halt of sale in order to prevent distribution of proceeds, given her outstanding claim under 1975 act.

It would be for her to bring the claim forward in court.

theoretica

So at the moment, you have a house worth £500k with claims against it for £80k by the bank and up to £105k by the partner - and complications about who can access what, when.



The bank are going to get their £80k - they can get it the easy way by you paying it, or they can get it the hard way by repossessing. If they repossess they would have charges and little motivation to get the very best price so this would probably be a financially poor decision - you and your mother could well lose lot of money going that route.


Is the partner claiming the whole or a portion of your father's estate?

[Deleted User]

MovingForwards wrote: »

An advert in the law gazette and a local paper to where his dad lived will reveal any other unknown debts, especially if the partner doesn't disclose any.

I assume OP has his dad's papers from the paper so can go through them and establish any debts.

As pointed out in £80k comes off the 25% value at the date of death of the property, I would suggest getting it revalued again by the guy who did it 6m after your dad died.

The cost of the funeral, wake and probate application with associated fees also comes out the estate.

Starting to look like the pot the partner is chasing is a lot smaller than she thought...

Make sure you screen print the comments from the other thread, and this one, as guidance just in case one accidentally gets deleted!

Hopefully, you are now confident this can get unraveled

Thank you for your support and advise, for me, probate is the next chapter in this journey. I am deliberating whether I should do this myself or instruct someone else to do it for me.. I am reading guides online...

I have none of his documentation except for his bank statements for 6 years, and what he had in his account at the time of death.

I took the screenshots.