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Complicated Probate case... sigh

edited 14 June 2019 at 4:05PM in Deaths, Funerals & Probate
127 replies 7.8K views
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  • elsienelsien Forumite
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    So the mortgage was just in dad's name?
    And you've chosen not to tell them he's passed away to try to avoid the complications of mum having to remortgage/sell etc? Isn't that one of your obligations as an executor?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
  • LintonLinton Forumite
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    You must tell the lender that your father has died.
  • Adams18Adams18 Forumite
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    Linton wrote: »
    You must tell the lender that your father has died.

    I plan to, the lender expects to be paid at the end of the maturity period.. their money is ready, remortgage option is ready.
  • edited 15 June 2019 at 3:58PM
    Adams18Adams18 Forumite
    109 posts
    edited 15 June 2019 at 3:58PM
    elsien wrote: »
    So the mortgage was just in dad's name?
    And you've chosen not to tell them he's passed away to try to avoid the complications of mum having to remortgage/sell etc? Isn't that one of your obligations as an executor?

    It's in his sole name, the lender will not deal with anyone else in divulging account details, except we get their correspondence to our address all the time, which is where my dad USED to live 20 years ago.,

    My mom will never be able to remortgage she is retired on benefits.

    I earn very well, and between me and my mom we have 80K on hand to pay the lender if it comes down to it.

    I have not yet got a grant/ letters of administration. I don't know if they will accept my money as a donation? At this stage, I am a nobody, the owner of the mortgage is deceased, and they don't deal with my mom except to take money from her for arrears/monthly payements which I give to her.

    I have not yet applied for letters of administration to deal with lender, what assurance do i have if I pay 80k to clear the mortgage and close the account when neither me or my mom are account holders, it would feel like a donation. 80,000 hard earned savings.
  • Tom99Tom99 Forumite
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    Adams18 wrote: »

    "The value of that interest is going to be way below the £80k debt"

    "You apply for probate giving a value of that interest as lets just say £40k but with a debt of £80k"

    What do you mean by the above? You mean the value accumulated on the 25% over the period my mother remains alive versus £80k?

    So you mean to say 40k minus 80k = -40k in the estate to discourage claimant, as there is not much in it for her?
    Its not clear what exactly you mean by 'chargeback'
    I assume your father has a 25% interest in the property but subject to a life interest to your mother?
    The way to value such an interest to take the current market value, lets say £125k but then defer that amount for a given number of years at an assumed discount rate.
    Lets say at 5%pa
    So if it was deferred say 1yr at 5% - £125,000/1.05=£119,000
    Say your mother's life expectancy was 30yrs - £125,000/(1.05)^30=£29,000
    Way below the debt of £80,000
  • edited 15 June 2019 at 4:06PM
    Adams18Adams18 Forumite
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    edited 15 June 2019 at 4:06PM
    Tom99 wrote: »
    Its not clear what exactly you mean by 'chargeback'
    I assume your father has a 25% interest in the property but subject to a life interest to your mother?
    The way to value such an interest to take the current market value, lets say £125k but then defer that amount for a given number of years at an assumed discount rate.
    Lets say at 5%pa
    So if it was deferred say 1yr at 5% - £125,000/1.05=£119,000
    Say your mother's life expectancy was 30yrs - £125,000/(1.05)^30=£29,000
    Way below the debt of £80,000
    It is meant that if the house is sold, he would have got 25% of the net proceeds after the mortgage debt was cleared from the proceeds first, and IF there was even a debt at that point (if the debt hadn't;t already been paid off or removed).

    And the house cannot be sold unless my mother remarries or she dies, or the bank sells the house to get their money because no one paid the mortgage, the mortgage is of course tied to the property as a secured loan, the lender couldn't care less about any court order, consumer law trumps whatever court order I have stated in this thread.

    And if lender repossess the home, it would be sold at a less than favourable price and the net proceeds would split between his estate and my mother at 25 and 75 per cent respectively.

    Not sure where the life interest plays into this... the nominal value of the 25% now is 125K IF the court order clause I described was triggered... what would it be 5 years from now? Ten years? I don't know. Won't matter until my mother passes or remarries, or the lender repossess.
  • Tom99Tom99 Forumite
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    Adams18 wrote: »
    I have not yet applied for letters of administration to deal with lender, what assurance do I have if I pay 80k to clear the mortgage and close the account when neither me or my mom are account holders, it would feel like a donation. £80,000 hard earned savings.
    The mortgage is secured on the house. What do you want assurance about?
    Obtain probate, pay off the mortgage than you and your mother will own the house.
    Deal with the ex-partners claim as a separate matter.
  • Adams18Adams18 Forumite
    109 posts
    Tom99 wrote: »
    The mortgage is secured on the house. What do you want assurance about?
    Obtain probate, pay off the mortgage than you and your mother will own the house.
    Deal with the ex-partners claim as a separate matter.


    Doing probate then paying mortgage is fine, paying mortgage without having done probate would make me feel uncomfortable as I am a nobody donating 80K to the lender, with not invoice, formal account closing procedures etc etc.

    Looks like I will have to do as you suggested, 80K is a lot to drop on this, if somehow... I ended up owing this claimant 25 per cent of the house on top of that at some point in the future.

    Then i'd be 80K plus 25% down, but all speculation.
  • Tom99Tom99 Forumite
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    Adams18 wrote: »
    It is meant that if the house is sold, he would have got 25% of the net proceeds after the mortgage debt was cleared from the proceeds first, and IF there was even a debt at that point (if the debt hadn't;t already been paid off or removed).
    So (£500k-£80k)/4=£105k
    In effect 75% of the mortgage repayment would come out of your mother's share.
  • Sea_ShellSea_Shell Forumite
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    Under normal circumstances wouldn't the mortgage lender give some time for probate to be obtained and the debt settled from the estate??

    They wouldn't go immediately to repossession on notification of death, surely.

    Who is the lender, as someone may have personal experience of this.
    " That pound I saved yesterday, is a pound I don't have to earn tomorrow ":beer: JOB DONE!!
    This should now read "It's time to start digging up those Squirrelled Nuts"!!! :j:j:j
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