How to enforce parking restrictions without being an a%&$ ?

twhitehousescat

hartebeestfootprint wrote: »

So in that case, if we go with a "parking forbidden, trespassers will be prosecuted" approach then there is really no disincentive for people parking there without permission if all I can claim from them is what they would have paid in the local council car park.

If we say parking is forbidden then only trespass can be enforced. To charge people for breaching a "no parking" setup it needs to be one where parking is offered but on discouraging terms eg £50 per day or part thereof, and then with the correct signage a contract of adhesion is formed when the driver parks, and PoFA enables the Registered Keeper to be compelled to name the driver who entered into the contract.

The parking prankster blog looks interesting - I'll spend more time reading up there. Interestingly he calls out management companies for using bottom-feeders instead of reputable PPC companies so presumably at least he believes there are decent operators out there.

its a very deep bucket without a top ,

NeilCr

Generally, I'd agree with the overall comments (although I think some of them could have been much less aggressive) about PPCs. While we are different to you (private housing estate managed by residents) when we raised parking problems with our Managing Agents they said they'd only use PPCs as a last resort.

But, I do think there are specific situations where self ticketing could work. And yours might be one of those as you seem really on top of it - which, you definitely have to be with PPCs . Having said that I don't know enough about the trespass suggestion raised by waamo. Definitely worth exploring

I do think, though, as I said earlier there is an underlying issue with the landowner having to go through all the hoops and spend time and money while the perpetrators just carry on. There have been a couple of threads here, recently, where people have, blatantly, admitted to breaking the "rules" but are still looking for a way out

Half_way

Where ( on a map ie google ) is this car park?

As mentioned in virtually all cases the only real way to stop people is by using physical devices, such as gates, bollards, barriers, chains etc


Another avenue not explored is to exploit the same thing that parking companies exploit - ignorance:

A few signs warning of Clamping and fines should scare off some

twhitehousescat

post 6 , but would seem to much like hard work https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=75851385&postcount=6

NeilCr

Half_way wrote: »

A few signs warning of Clamping and fines should scare off some

Yes. But only some

You are still left with the hard core who know the game and just carry on.

hartebeestfootprint

A few signs warning of Clamping and fines should scare off some

As I said we already have a sign up. I assume it scares away the people who would be scared off by a sign and so we are left with those that aren't scared off by a sign, and those who believe noone enforces what the sign says.

now , you or your wife etc park there , BUY A CLAMP !!! and after placing signs around YOUR area , place the clamp on one of YOUR cars
when people see a clamp , they will park elsewhere

Sorry I assumed that was just a joke. I think I explained in my initial post that the biggest problem we have is people parking there nights and weekends:

Most of the time it's OK, but sometimes during the day, and quite often during the evenings and weekends, random people park there. Her business also runs evening and weekend events, so the parking is needed during these times (not all the time but it's real pain when she turns up to work and shoppers or cinema-goers have parked there instead of paying to park in the council spaces).

So when the staff arrive at 6:30pm on a Wednesday or 9am on a Saturday, there are peole parked already. Often, 3 cars parked haphazardly across 5 bays, to add insult to injury, preventing 2 more cars from fitting that would if they parked like decent human beings.

Short of buying a banger and using up a bay to leave it there with a clamp on as a deterrent (how long will that last before they suss that it's a ruse?), how will clamping one of our cars help?

Half_way

Block the !!!!!!s in?

I've been involved with a community /village hall in the past, lockable gates were installed on the car park entrance, and the other entrance was sealed up, a sign stating that the gates will be opened up between X and Y and locked after such and such a time soon got rid of the parkers.


At another place where I worked there was an issue with unwanted parkers, as the parking there was limited and the standard method to get the cars in was to double park and block each other in.
This also had the effect of trapping the unwanted visitors in for a short while, they could either wait until hometime or go in and ask and then wait for someone to come and move vehicle to let them out

Coupon-mad

how will clamping one of our cars help?

How will ticketing help, once you have driven away the regular suspects?

Parking firms won't be happy for your to ticket for 6 weeks based on your own rules, then once those offenders have moved on, that you want to stop because you are happy that the double parkers are now your staff.

They will send someone to ticket your staff & customers, otherwise the signage alone is not worth it for the scum.

As for Pranky, I won't mention the only firm he used to suggest were OK, as I suspect he's changed his mind (clue - ''Tito'').

You need little key chains/poles. It is the answer and they are easy to open for staff.

getmore4less

Example of what has worked near us.

There is a site in our town that has an access delivery road just off a main road.
Only 40m but for a couple of units on the front it was handy to park there as a customer.

Over time it would be filled with cars as people caught on and word got out the double yellows were just paint.

They had a PPC(forget which one) but they were useless, people just ignored the invoices and carried on parking the visits by the PPC got infrequent as they knew they were not getting any money.

There was still enough room for deliveries but very inconvenient for the drivers.
People who worked in the units on the site were warned off by the owners but that just left more spaces for customers

They changed to Horizon who were on the case with regular invoices but Horizon signs are not compliant and the invoices are not POFA so it was an easy win at first appeal or POPLA, over time they failed as I suspect the regulars were just not paying, as Horizon don't follow up to court much.

Next they tried APNR no need for people on the ground and they can automate the invoice issuing.

This seems to have work in the main as a lot of the offenders were short stay(30-60mins) so did not get invoices every time before APNR.

Now getting an invoice with every visit of more then the grace period it is probably to much hassle to deal with them even if you never pay.

There are still a few that park there, some use the reverse out, some just cover their number plates.

JamoLew

Put up a big sign sayin "Vehicles left here at owners risk" - you can't control what happens - can you