Economy 10 meter change Eon

scones

Not that difficult, I'm sure - it's the standard Economy 7 setup in our area.

Single phase supply feeds a two-rate meter. The output is then split in a junction box: one cable directly to the main light/power consumer unit and a second cable which goes via a timeswitch or radio teleswitch to the separate consumer unit for heating and is therefore only energised during the off peak period. (A further connection from timeswitch to meter also exists to flip it between peak / off-peak registers).

I've seen at least one smaller supplier claim online that they have a 'five wire' variant of their smart meter which provides the same functionality in one unit. (I assume the fifth wire is a switched off peak supply, in addition to the normal four cables for live/neutral in/out).

The only difficulty would be if the OP has such a high level of demand that they really need two phases to cope with the load - but that seems very unlikely.

GailForce

I recently received a letter from eon threatening that I would be transferred from my existing RHT tariff to a standard variable tariff the following month, and that my annual electricity bill would increase by 47% a year. I telephoned eon and waited in a 20-minute queue to speak with a ‘specialist adviser’. I subsequently managed to obtain a written personal cost projection for three alternative tariff options.
· Economy 7 and Economy 10, both of which indicated a 25% increase in electricity charges.
· A Fixed Term Tariff without an Off-Peak Rate which indicated a 20% increase in charges.

My own calculations based on my previous 12 month’s usage indicated a 40% increase in electricity charges for Economy 10 and a 37% increase for Economy 7. The later would not be suitable as my storage heaters require an afternoon boost.

I spoke again with same supposed ‘specialist adviser’ who was unable to explain eon’s cost projection, but arranged for a ‘backroom pointy-head’ to call me. I learned that the eon projection is based on the absurd premise that that the same amount of ‘off peak’ electricity is used during the summer months as in the winter months. In my case, eon considers the annual on-peak / off-peak split to be 58% / 42%. My own records show this estimate is close to my winter usage but totally wrong for the summer period. The pointy-head conceded my calculations were more accurate than the figures provided by eon.

My calculations assume that I would be able to take advantage of Economy 10 cheaper day rates for 25% of my normal domestic use. However, the inflated price of Economy 10 daytime units far outweighs any advantages which may be derived by using electricity at the cheaper ‘off-peak’ times.

So, if you have been forced to change from a RHT tariff to either Economy 7 or Economy 10 and have received a cost projection from eon, unless you use the same amount of electricity during the cheap hours in the summer as you do in the winter, be prepared for your electricity bill to be far higher than eon has indicated.

As the threatened date of the enforced change to the Standard Variable Tariff was looming, I was forced to accept the least punitive option of the Fixed Term Tariff with No Off Peak and a 27% (not 20% as eon quotes) increase in charges. Unfortunately, pressure of time did not allow me to investigate alternative tariffs available from other members of the electricity supplier’s cartel. I am therefore now trapped into using my off-peak storage heating at an on-peak rate for the next 12 months.

In fact, like many people, I have been locked into eon’s RHT tariff for many years as there has not a viable alternative tariff available elsewhere for my storage heating system. Clearly eon has little regard for long-standing customer’s requirements and obviously customer loyalty is not a concept eon recognises.

Sandydog

You would have been better to switch to a standard variable rate tariff initially and then switch providers as soon as you were able.

How will you switch your storage heaters on and off ? The problem we faced if we switched to a flat rate tariff, is that we would have to switch them on and off at odd times of day to keep the number of hours they were on reasonable. With the economy 10 this happened automatically. A lot of people advised us to switch to a flat rate tariff, but the heaters would need constant management. We are averaging over 90% of our useage as off peak, but it is still a huge price hike.
Luckily we realised quickly that the smart meter is not very smart. The home console doesn't tell you when the cheap rate starts, it is just an estimate. It is 70 minutes wrong. If we had gone by the display we would have used a disastrous amount of peak rate electricity.

omendata

captainkirk wrote: »

We have had a letter from EON saying that our economy 10 heating tariff is no longer supported - they are changing the meters to one meter and we need to pick a new tariff.


They offer Economy 10 but the new tariff prices are as follows


23.56 standing charge current tariff 15.64
21.59 day rate current tariff 16.18
13.07 cheap rate current tariff 8.27 for night/heating


It's a huge increase which will see about £750 pounds a year increase - how are they able to get away with this! I think we are going to have to look at alternative heating which will mean oil as there is no gas in the village. My sister has oil and our heating and electricity has been on a par with what they pay for oil and electricity in a year which we have been happy with - it's about £1750 a year - will now be £2600 for economy 10 or just on £3000 on a normal tariff.


The other problem I have is that I rang up about the meter change (we don't have to decide which we want until September). It's a complex set up as we have two phases of electricity (60amp and 100amp) which go into two separate meters (one handles the storage heaters and hot water) - I spoke to the simpler meter team (they say they don't have a complex meter team) who assure me that these two phases can both be accommodated into one meter but speaking to PowerNetworks they said we need a three phase meter but were unsure whether it will accept two different amps on the one meter - again I rang Eon only to be told that they understood we have five meters (honestly!!!) - at the end of a very confusing conversation I was assured that there will be no problem with putting in one meter but I can't get an answer as to whether intend to put in a three phase meter - to be able to talk to someone who could make sense would be great but the generalisations and 'I need to talk to my manager' don't leave me with a lot of confidence that they know what they are doing - I hope I am wrong!


I still don't understand how they are able to raise prices like that - it's all very well being told its a business decision but that doesn't help us find over £700 a year or money to put in a new heating system! I thought Ofgem was supposed to have clamped down on this sort of thing.


Does anyone know more about the two phases please and do you think Eon have told me correctly that it will be an easy change?


Tracey

SCOTTISH POWER UNFORTUNATELY FOR ME
And I apparently cannot switch because of the white meter I have as its Scottish power "special" tariff and meter!

Our rates are
Day 0.25739
Night 0.13293
Control 0.12293
Standing Charge 0.26680

SO ALL YOUR RATES ARE ACTUALLY BRILLIANT COMPARED TO MINE!!!

EVEN YOUR STANDING CHARGE IS LESS!

EnergyRookie

omendata wrote: »

SCOTTISH POWER UNFORTUNATELY FOR ME
And I apparently cannot switch because of the white meter I have as its Scottish power "special" tariff and meter!

Our rates are
Day 0.25739
Night 0.13293
Control 0.12293
Standing Charge 0.26680

SO ALL YOUR RATES ARE ACTUALLY BRILLIANT COMPARED TO MINE!!!

EVEN YOUR STANDING CHARGE IS LESS!

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6068625/scottish-power-worst-ever-what-is-the-current-compensation-for-loss-of-leccie :cool:

GailForce

You would have been better to switch to a standard variable rate tariff initially and then switch providers as soon as you were able.

How will you switch your storage heaters on and off ? The problem we faced if we switched to a flat rate tariff, is that we would have to switch them on and off at odd times of day to keep the number of hours they were on reasonable. With the economy 10 this happened automatically. A lot of people advised us to switch to a flat rate tariff, but the heaters would need constant management. We are averaging over 90% of our useage as off peak, but it is still a huge price hike.
Luckily we realised quickly that the smart meter is not very smart. The home console doesn't tell you when the cheap rate starts, it is just an estimate. It is 70 minutes wrong. If we had gone by the display we would have used a disastrous amount of peak rate electricity.

You may be right Sandydog, it may have been better to switch to a standard variable rate tariff and then switch supplier. Eon quoted 17.861p per unit and 23.772p daily standing charge for a standard variable rate tariff, compared with 15.761p per unit and 17.178p daily standing charge for a 1 Year Fixed Term Tariff. I was pressured by bullyboy eon to make a decision by the deadline they had imposed. Unfortunately, urgent family issues prevented me from being able to fully investigate other alternatives.

In the past, I had previously investigated other suppliers for a tariff similar to eon’s RHT tariff but without success. I do not think I use enough off-peak electricity for any supplier’s Economy 10 tariff to be beneficial because of the grossly inflated day rate, but for those perusing the Economy 10 option this comparison site may be of interest:- https://economy10.com/

As for my metering, eon said they were going to leave the two exiting meters in place and add the readings together for billing. The RHT time switch is still controlling my storage heating. I refused to have a smart meter installed to avoid future problems when I do switch suppliers. It occurred to me that if I ask for one single rate meter to be installed now, and for the time switch removed, I would be able to control my heaters individually to suit my own circumstances rather than accept eon’s switching times. A few time switches from eBay could be the answer in the short term

eon said that there would not be a charge for a meter change, but that could have been a lie. They also said I could switch to Economy 7 or Economy 10 after 12 months if I wished, but that could also have been a lie. You get a different story from eon depending on who you speak to. To quote the late Terry Thomas, “An absolute shower”.

Sandydog

Yes we have had totally different advice each time we have called too ! All sounded convincing. At least four were wrong ! We were told we must have a new simple meter, though they cannot insist on it being a smart meter. We agreed to the second generation smart meter. This was free as they had imposed the change on us. There should be no problem switching with this, but not much choice anyway with economy 10. They said if we wanted to switch to economy 7 later it would be £60 to change the meter. I can't believe this is a physical change. Surely just a software alteration.

Our storage heaters are hard wired not in plugs. We looked at timers for them but that did not seem an option as they draw a lot of current. New heaters were not worth the expense.

thorganby

Sandydog wrote: »

You would have been better to switch to a standard variable rate tariff initially and then switch providers as soon as you were able.

I disagree, it would be best to get them to remove their legacy metering set up and switch to a standard E7 meter at no cost now.

A standard E7 meter could be used on E7 or a single rate tariff and gives access to the whole market and the cheapest tariffs available.

I do agree that the advice that customers are being given is very bad, misleading and unhelpful but ideally you want rid of their meter/s now and not have to pay for a meter change later.

3phase

Does anyone know more about the two phases please and do you think Eon have told me correctly that it will be an easy change?

There appears to be a lot of confusion about captainkirk’s single phase three wire electricity supply. I hope I can clarify.

60 - 70 years ago when remote rural properties were being connected to the electricity supply network the local electricity board would provide a supply as cheaply as possible. For example, for small supplies up to about 50kva, they would run a single phase two wire 11000-volt overhead line from the nearest existing HV network, which could be several miles away, and erect a single-phase pole mounted transformer at the end of the new HV line. Two low voltage overhead cables would provide a 240-volt single phase supply to each customer’s property.

Over time, as more properties were built and the load increased it would have been necessary to upgrade the electricity supply to cater for the increased demand. The ideal solution would have been to upgrade to a three-phase system which would involve installing an additional HV conductor to the transformer position, changing the transformer for a three-phase unit and upgrade the LV mains to a three phase 415/240-volt, four wire system. This would have also provided capacity for future load growth.

However, a cheaper solution was often employed by many electricity companies (including Eastern Electricity). This involved merely changing the transformer for a single phase three wire 480/240-volt unit and upgrading the LV network to a 480/240 volt three-wire system. The voltage between each of the two live conductors and the neutral conductor was 240 volts and the voltage between the two live conductors was 480 volts. The cost advantages for the electricity company were: -
· It was not necessary to upgrade the HV overhead supply to three-phase.
· The transformer was cheaper.
· It was only necessary to run one additional conductor on the LV network.

Individual properties would be connected to either of the two 240v supplies so that overall the electrical load on each ‘phase’ was equally balanced. For larger loads a 480/240 volt three-wire supply would be provided and the load balanced within the property.

I would guess that when captainkirk’s property was extended and storage heating installed, a three-wire supply was provided and the new heating load was connected to the new 100-amp supply and the normal domestic load remained on the original 60-amp supply. While on RHT, there were two separate meters, one for normal domestic and the other for the heating. A simple arrangement. A metering problem now arises with Eon suggesting Economy 10. A single, multi-rate meter, to record the total combined normal domestic units and heating units on the two separate ‘phases’ is required.

Considering captainkirk’s outdated supply arrangements, I wonder if a new meter suitable for Economy 10 and captainkirk’s unique situation actually exists. Sit tight captainkirk and wait for Eon to provide a solution to your problem. I will be interested in the outcome.

captainkirk

Thanks for the information 3phase - that's exactly our set up...or was - we decided to install oil central heating as the prospect of getting economy 10 at anywhere near a price that wouldn't see our bills rise by over £700 a year was going to be near on impossible. We used to operate the storage heaters on economy 7 when they were first installed but they regularly ran out of heat in the evenings in the winter. Hence the change to economy 10 which worked brilliantly for us and has done for many years.

We now have one meter with one 60 amp supply (the 100 amp fuse is still there but redundant). I did ring Power Networks when Eon's plans first came to light because their 'simpler metering' team were hopeless in their assistance and I couldn't get an answer about a meter which would take the two phases. Power Networks said there are such meters but to make sure that Eon understood that that was what was needed (another nightmare to sort out). Whether or not the one meter would have handled switching the storage heaters off and on separately I don't know. It eventually became a non issue as we decided to alter the heating - and very toasty warm it is too

Needless to say we also changed our supplier as soon as the meter was changed!