POPLA Appeal

SuperGirl09

Thank you, I totally appreciate all of your advice and others who have contributed here. I will add that. Should I follow a format or just say - as is?

I want to dispute it but I am unsure of the direction to take.

MistyZ

There are some links to good examples of evidence rebuttal in the POPLA section of the Newbies' thread - it's post 3 there. Scroll down to the heading 'After submitting your appeal' to find them.

I completely understand, once you see a tried & tested way of doing things it's much easier to get going on it.

Edit: hang on, just noticed that most (all?) of the links are to rather old rebuttals. Basically just point out anything that fails to negate the points you made in your POPLA appeal. The grace period one is probably sufficient but add more if you wish and have any characters to spare.

Re. signage, look carefully at the specific points in your appeal, have they disproved them? I doubt it. So if for example they show close up of signs that in reality are badly positioned and difficult to read, then point out how misleading their photographs are.

You don't need any niceties, just clear statements.

MistyZ

Different company and somewhat different issues, but post 43 here may help in terms of layout and phrasing:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5990669/parkingeye-lido-margate-popla-appeal&page=3#topofpage

SuperGirl09

MistyZ wrote: »

Different company and somewhat different issues, but post 43 here may help in terms of layout and phrasing:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5990669/parkingeye-lido-margate-popla-appeal&page=3#topofpage

Thank you so much for both your comments!!

Here is what I have written -

1) Insufficient time purchased
2) They have written authority to operate at M&B The Green Man
3) Signs are clear

RESPONSE:

1) I note that ECP have not disputed the fact that the alleged 'overstay' was fully covered by BPA guidelines on Grace Periods. This appeal must therefore be allowed. The Guidelines state that a grace period of 10 minutes minimum should be given prior to a parking action and also at the end of a parking action.

3) I also note that the images supplied are either of close ups of the signage or at a distance and are therefore illegible until the vehicle is parked appropriately, the driver has left the vehicle to read and understand the available signage and determined whether they wish to remain in that car park by making a payment to commit to the parking on that land. This is without taking into account the circumstances at which the driver was under in the appeal. All of which may take at the very least 10 minutes, stated in the operators evidence on page 10. The Signs are not within proximity to the vehicle where they can be read and understood prior to parking and there are no distances on the plan provided.

SuperGirl09

ECP Argues:

1) Insufficient time purchased
2) Signs are clear & car headlights would illuminate signs

Appellant RESPONSE:

1) I note that ECP have not disputed the fact that the alleged 'overstay' was fully covered by BPA guidelines on Grace Periods. This appeal must therefore be allowed. The Guidelines state that a grace period of 10 minutes minimum should be given prior to a parking action and also at the end of a parking action.

2) I also note that the images supplied are either of close ups of the signage or at a distance and are therefore illegible until the vehicle is parked appropriately, the driver has left the vehicle to read and understand the available signage and determined whether they wish to remain in that car park by making a payment to commit to the parking on that land. This is without taking into account the circumstances at which the driver was under in the appeal. All of which may take at the very least 10 minutes, stated in the operators evidence on page 10. The Signs are not within proximity to the vehicle where they can be read and understood prior to parking and there are no distances on the plan provided.

nosferatu1001

Do the guideliens now state 10min before? They didnt used to. They stated the period AFTER must be at least 10....

MistyZ

In your appeal you quoted this:

'“An observation period is the time when an enforcement officer should be able to determine what the motorist intends to do once in the car park. The BPA’s guidance specifically says that there must be sufficient time for the motorist to park their car, observe the signs, decide whether they want to comply with the operator’s conditions and either drive away or pay for a ticket,” he explains.

“No time limit is specified. This is because it might take one person five minutes, but another person 10 minutes depending on various factors, not limited to disability.”'

Looks like you'll have enough character allowance left to reiterate that second paragraph e.g. 'As stated in my appeal, Kevin Reynolds of the BPA clarified that no time limit is specified prior to parking action, it could be 5 minutes or 10, depending on circumstances'.

If you want to emphasise anything, I've heard you can't always get italics to work but can use capitals. Could be useful if used sparingly.

Signage-wise, I'd break up that first sentence e.g. 'ECP's close-up images of signs are misleading as they do not indicate font size or accessibility to motorist. As in appeal, areas of car park are unsigned, there were no signs in the proximity of car and no distances are given on the plan provided.'

Personally I wouldn't put the 'read & understood prior to parking ... ' bit in.

Good luck, many fingers crossed for you!

SuperGirl09

ECP Evidence pack claims:

1) Insufficient time purchased
2) They have written authority to operate at M&B Car Park
3) Signs are clear

My Response:

1) I note that ECP have not disputed the fact that the alleged 'overstay' was fully covered by BPA guidelines on Grace Periods. The Guidelines state that a grace period of 10 minutes minimum should be given at the end of a parking action.

As stated in my appeal, Kevin Reynolds of the BPA clarified that no time limit is specified prior to parking action, it could be 5 minutes or 10, depending on circumstances, not limited to disability.

2) ECP's close-up images of signs are misleading as they do not indicate font size or accessibility to the motorist. As in appeal, areas of car park are unsigned, there were no signs in the proximity of the car and no distances are given on the plan provided. Then the driver is to determine whether they wish to remain in that car park by making a payment to commit to the parking on that land. This is without taking into account the circumstances at which the driver was under in the appeal. All of which may take at the very least 10 minutes, stated in the operators evidence on page 10.


right track?

MistyZ

SuperGirl09 wrote: »

ECP Evidence pack claims:

1) Insufficient time purchased
2) They have written authority to operate at M&B Car Park
3) Signs are clear

My Response:

1) I note that ECP have not disputed the fact that the alleged 'overstay' was fully covered by BPA guidelines on Grace Periods. Therefore this appeal should be allowed.

To reiterate from my appeal, BPA guidelines state that a grace period of 10 minutes minimum should be given at the end of a parking action and, as Kevin Reynolds of BPA has clarified, no time limit is specified prior to parking action, it could be 5 minutes or 10, depending on circumstances.

2) ECP's close-up images of signs are very misleading as they do not indicate font size or accessibility to the motorist. As in appeal, areas of car park are unsigned, there were no signs in the proximity of the car and no distances are given on the plan provided. Then the driver is to determine whether they wish to remain in that car park by making a payment to commit to the parking on that land. This is without taking into account the circumstances at which the driver was under in the appeal. All of which may take at the very least 10 minutes, stated in the operators evidence on page 10.

Parts of signage bit sound a bit confusing to me but to be honest I think this will do. I've made suggestions for alternative wording of grace periods bit as this seems the most important one!

SuperGirl09

I must say, I am confusing myself! I'm sorry. Nothing worse than pressure and 'anti sleep' children! Reaaaaalllyyyyy appreciate this.