POPLA Appeal

SuperGirl09

Hello,

Firstly thanking the members who contribute to these forums for free, you time, effort and knowledge is appreciated.

- I received a Parking Charge Notice via ANPR issued 3/3/19 and the initial document that came to my home said 'the vehicle was parked without a valid pay by phone transaction' when it was, so I sent my evidence in my first appeal. This was declined. The reason being that I entered the car park on 3/3/19 at - 14:29 and left at 16:51. My paid parking started at 14:38 for 2 hours which was the maximum (under 10 minutes of observation period) as I had difficulty with making the payment via phone (I received a text message saying that a parking call was started but ended before confirmation)/parking in a space where I could get my then 22 week old out the car and into the pushchair.

- upon returning to my car and packing everything away, I had to breastfeed her, put her back in the car seat and then of course leave. This meant my parking was overstayed by 13 minutes beyond the time that I had paid for. So, 3 minutes over if including a grace period. I read somewhere about the Equality Act and its reference to breast-feeding mothers of babies under 6 months being covered by it?

I am trawling the threads as we speak though it is after 2 in the morning and my brain is fried after getting back from 24 hour stint on paediatric ward.

I have been in the newbies thread which is so valuable, but I am wondering if I am right in sending the part in blue for my appeal to POPLA?

I went to check that statement made by Kevin for the BPA - is this something I can include in my statement?

The decline of my appeal came on 30th April 2019. So I have 28 days to sort this though I lose my right to pay £85 or something.

I want to get this right as I ignored the letters on a previous one (very difficult to determine where to park was not allowed) and the fine went up to £180 and debt collection so I am paying it back - I didn't know any of the above previously.

Grateful for some clarity.

Redx

no , the blue text appeal was not for POPLA, its for the initial appeal to the parking company

and POPLA never accept the EA2010 as being valid, even though it should be

the BPA CoP clause #13 covers GRACE PERIODS, one period before and one after , so download it and read it , so 2 grace periods should cover you

see post #3 of that NEWBIES THREAD for popla appeal points and examples (scroll DOWN)

POST #4 OF THAT THREAD TELLS YOU ABOUT IGNORING DEBT COLLECTORS , WHO ARE POWERLESS

the only time you owe money is if a judge says so, not before

MistyZ

Hi there.

Can you tell us please: name of parking company, date NTK received and whether you revealed who was driving in your initial appeal.

Also have you considered a landowner complaint? If shopping or other activities were carried out in premises served by the car park then a complaint to the overall manager or landowner stands a fair chance of success. Many PCNs get cancelled that way.

Redx is much more experienced than me, but it seems to me that EA2010 may well be a valid point if woven into grace periods.

See this thread (the issue is disability but EA2010 is covered in the POPLA appeal):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5995243/parkingeye-popla-appeal&highlight=ea+2010

You need to submit a damn good POPLA appeal and clearly you have quite a busy schedule! But you do have time and most sections of the appeal can be copy & pasted and then carefully checked / tweaked for relevance.

SuperGirl09

Redx wrote: »

no , the blue text appeal was not for POPLA, its for the initial appeal to the parking company

and POPLA never accept the EA2010 as being valid, even though it should be

the BPA CoP clause #13 covers GRACE PERIODS, one period before and one after , so download it and read it , so 2 grace periods should cover you

see post #3 of that NEWBIES THREAD for popla appeal points and examples (scroll DOWN)

POST #4 OF THAT THREAD TELLS YOU ABOUT IGNORING DEBT COLLECTORS , WHO ARE POWERLESS

the only time you owe money is if a judge says so, not before

Okay - thank you. I unfortunately didn't understand that. Thank you.

Ok - thanks for the heads up.

So I will put that in my claim regarding grace periods.


Will go back to that thread for newbies now.

I wish I had continued to ignore. I am now paying them back at a rate of £5 a month. Not much I can do now thoughI don't think.

Thanks.

SuperGirl09

MistyZ wrote: »

Hi there.

Can you tell us please: name of parking company, date NTK received and whether you revealed who was driving in your initial appeal.

Also have you considered a landowner complaint? If shopping or other activities were carried out in premises served by the car park then a complaint to the overall manager or landowner stands a fair chance of success. Many PCNs get cancelled that way.

Redx is much more experienced than me, but it seems to me that EA2010 may well be a valid point if woven into grace periods.

See this thread (the issue is disability but EA2010 is covered in the POPLA appeal):

*link removed as I am a newbie*

You need to submit a damn good POPLA appeal and clearly you have quite a busy schedule! But you do have time and most sections of the appeal can be copy & pasted and then carefully checked / tweaked for relevance.

Hi there,

The company is Euro Car Parks. It was issued 11th March - the incident 3rd.

I am not exactly sure of the words I used but I said that I had paid the time to park there, showing the transaction receipt on my phone as evidence (I sent a screenshot).

I haven't - I didn't use the Pub the land was on, but another across the road.

I will certainly add it to my appeal if it adds weight to it. I will go back through and see what I can copy/paste to draw up something.

Thank you so much.

SuperGirl09

I'm reading the BPA code and it is saying that a Grace after the parking has run out is only 5 minutes?

vehicles that have paid for parking and visibly display a payment ticket but have overstayed the ‘paid-for’ time displayed on the ticket by less than 5 minutes – unless they are committing some other breach of the regulations.You may only issue parking charge notices after the 5-minute ‘grace’ period has run out.

SuperGirl09

Ok.. I have read this - Vehicles whose drivers have paid legitimately for parking but have overstayed the ‘paid-for’ time, and are not committing any other breach of the regulations, may
not be immobilised unless they have stayed beyond a reasonable ‘grace period’.The grace period should be at least 15 minutes beyond the time their permitted parking period expired.

So I tried to do the pay by phone at 1435, it didn't go through and I got a text message saying so, then I successfully paid 3 minutes later.

Then afterwards, I only was behind in the car park for 13 minutes which is under the 15 as prescribed by the BPA.

Will go hunting for a similar appeal to draft something.

Coupon-mad

I wish I had continued to ignore. I am now paying them back at a rate of £5 a month. Not much I can do now though, I don't think.

STOP paying. Stop throwing good money after bad.

You are surely not paying this money to DRP? Just stop and tell them to do one.

Ok.. I have read this - Vehicles whose drivers have paid legitimately for parking but have overstayed the ‘paid-for’ time, and are not committing any other breach of the regulations, may
not be immobilised unless they have stayed beyond a reasonable ‘grace period’.The grace period should be at least 15 minutes beyond the time their permitted parking period expired.

WHY are you reading the NORTHERN IRELAND BPA CoP rules about clamping?

MistyZ

Take a good look at the grace periods section in the link I gave you.

SuperGirl09

Coupon-mad wrote: »

STOP paying. Stop throwing good money after bad.

You are surely not paying this money to DRP? Just stop and tell them to do one. I


WHY are you reading the NORTHERN IRELAND BPA CoP rules about clamping?

I am paying the DRP so I will do that.

I misread it. Sorry.

SuperGirl09

POPLA CODE XXXXXXXX
I am the registered keeper and I am appealing this parking charge from Euro Car Parks.

To protect the driver, they have not been named.

My appeal as the registered keeper is as follows:
1. Insufficient grace period



1. No period of grace given for the driver to read the additional signs within the car park, or to exit the car park following the parking period.

This matter appears to flow from an allegation of an 'overstay' of 22 minutes, despite the fact this is not an overstay at all and is unsupported by the BPA. The paid for parking session on the PCN is not established by the photographs provided from EURO CARPARKS in the Notice to Keeper (NTK). Photographs taken only demonstrate the time of entry into and exit from the car park but do not establish the time at which the parking ticket was purchased or at which it expired.

The BPA Code of Practice [January 2019] (13.2) states: ‘If the parking location is one where parking is normally permitted, you must allow the driver a reasonable grace period in addition to the parking event before enforcement action is taken. In such instances the grace period must be a minimum of 10 minutes.’

The entrance signs to this car park are insufficient to allow the driver to decide whether parking in the car park would breach any contract. The additional sign is within the car park and past the point where the ANPR camera has captured an entry time and therefore a grace period should be given to read the additional sign and decide whether to adhere to the terms of the contract or leave the car park.

*can I add*

- An attempt at a pay by phone transaction was made within 6 minutes of entering the car park (according to the ANPR entrance time, if correct) which was unsuccessful. A further attempt was then successful, with a valid pay by phone transaction starting at 1238pm.

Kelvin Reynolds, Head of Public Affairs and Policy at BPA states that:

‘“There is a difference between ‘grace’ periods and ‘observation’ periods in parking and that good practice allows for this.”

“An observation period is the time when an enforcement officer should be able to determine what the motorist intends to do once in the car park. The BPA’s guidance specifically says that there must be sufficient time for the motorist to park their car, observe the signs, decide whether they want to comply with the operator’s conditions and either drive away or pay for a ticket,” he explains.

“No time limit is specified. This is because it might take one person five minutes, but another person 10 minutes depending on various factors, not limited to disability.”

The BPA’s guidance defines the ‘grace period’ as the time allowed after permitted or paid-for parking has expired but before any kind of enforcement takes place.

Kelvin continues: “In the instance of a PCN being issued while a ticket is being purchased, the operator has clearly not given the motorist sufficient time to read the signs and comply as per the operator’s own rules. If a motorist decides they do not want to comply and leaves the car park, then a reasonable period of time should be provided also.”’

*link to BPA Good Practice Article*

In addition, the BPA Code of Practice [January 2019] (13.4) states that: the parking operators ‘should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.’

*can I add*

At the end of the paid for parking period, the vehicle overstayed parking by a total of 13 minutes, however with the aforementioned grace period of a minimum of 10 minutes, it is to be agreed that an additional 3 minutes is not unreasonable...

During a BPA Professional Development and Standards Board meeting in July 2015 it was formally agreed that relevant changes to the Code of Practice would be made to ensure compliance with the DfT guidelines regarding grace periods.

‘Implications of the 10 minute grace period were discussed and the Board agreed with suggestion by AH that the clause should comply with DfT guidelines in the English book of by-laws to encourage a single standard. Board agreed that as the guidelines state that grace periods need to exceed 10 minutes clause 13.4 should be amended to reflect a mandatory 11 minute grace period.’

*Link to BPA PDSB Jul-15*

The driver of the car at the time was captured by ANPR cameras driving in to the car park at 14:29pm on 03/03/2019 and driving out at 16:51pm on the same date. They were unable to park immediately upon entering the car park due to congestion from other vehicles, and there was further delay purchasing a parking ticket due to having to call and secure parking as instructed via Pay By Phone. Although no mention is made of any ticket purchase on the NTK, the ticket was purchased at 14:38pm for 2 hours of parking, which expired at 16:38pm (payment receipt - figure 1).

*Figure 1*

Immediately prior to exiting the car park it was necessary to stop and breastfeed an infant child aged 22 weeks prior to leaving, which included packing away a pushchair, feeding the infant and securing the child into the car seat safely and securely. The Equality Act 2010 has specifically clarified that it is unlawful for a business to discriminate against a woman because she is breastfeeding a child.
A business may ask a breastfeeding woman to leave their premises if the reason for this request is not due to her breastfeeding. However, if the woman later claims that discrimination occurred because she was breastfeeding, the business will have to prove that there was in fact no discrimination. The driver would otherwise need not have outstayed the end of the parking ticket if they were not breastfeeding a child.

** ^ thoughts on the above please?**


In their appeal rejection letter, Euro Car Parks state that “insufficient time was paid for on the date of the parking event.” This rejection letter also states that "Signage is clear drivers must purchase a valid pay and display ticket for the full duration of their stay."

It is very clear from the evidence that Euro Car Parks have failed to uphold the minimum grace periods set out in the BPA Code of Practice (13.2 & 13.4), as the total time in the carpark exceeded the paid period by only 2 minutes which is well within the bounds of the BPA CoP.

By any stretch of the imagination, these few minutes are well within what an ordinary independent person assessing the facts would consider reasonable. In fact, this case demonstrates significant unreasonableness on the part of this notorious parking operator who appear to be attempting to get more and more false 'overstay' allegations past POPLA this year, ignoring their Trade Body rules from the BPA.

I have copied and pasted and amended where I think I am correct. Please may I have some feedback?