Tesla Price Reductions

DrEskimo

motorguy wrote: »

I'm with you on this - up to / down to a point.

I think theres a relatively low price point whereby i can still see the merit in buying new. I budget for 50% depreciation every 3 years, so around £20K means probably returning £10K after three years. Our MINI Cooper S was £24Kish list, £21K ish after discount so i'm probably OK with losing £10K over 3 years.

Over and above that to me it starts to get silly. A £50K Merc or BMW probably doesnt get you much more these days than a mid range diesel variant, yet you're still going to have to suffer £25,000 depreciation at least in three years. Up from there the numbers go crazy. £80K on a BMW can become £40K or £30K in three years time. :eek:

If i was intent on spending that on a car, it would have to be on something like a 911 or something where i'd know i was getting a good percentage of my money back come resale time.

Yup that's certainly a very reasonable argument. I don't know though...I would still be looking to get the Cooper for closer to £16k and then benefit from the slower depreciation. My partners Mini Cooper (1.6 Auto petrol) was bought 3yrs old for £11k and now 5yrs later is still able to fetch around £6k....I imagine similar depreciation levels for a 3yr old Cooper S? Only thing she's had to spend on it is regular serving at out local garage and a £300 thermostat out of the used warranty...

Considering deprecation costs would be nearly half, I feel like there is a fair margin before you need to start worrying about repair bills making the cost of ownership comparable to new.

If you covered the plates and had a new Cooper S next to your used one, would you really be able to tell the difference? That's what I mean by not getting the value...I don't see what you get for spending nearly £5k more on depreciation? Even if it's a model facelift, there really isn't much difference...!

But I guess that's were we differ...clearly you have a sensible limit on what you will spend and spending that bit more for a new one is worth it for you, which is understandable even if I don't quite agree myself :beer:

motorguy wrote: »

I like my toys but i tend to hold on to them a while. My HP Envy 13 is coming 3 years old, but it still looks well and i'd need to spend £1500 to get something better than it. Likewise my phone is an S8+ which replaced a Note 4. I dont see any particular advantage in getting say an S10+ as it wont do anything more than the S8+ does for me anyway.

Both the phone and my laptop are put through my company anyway, so theres the 40% or so tax saving and the VAT saving.

Cant get my Xbox One X past my accountant though...

Yea I'm the same. Still got my 4yr old MacBook Pro that I bought new for about £800. Apple have decided to mess up their entire laptop line up that I have no desire to get any of their new ones. This one still operates great...will likely try to repair and keep it going for as long as possible, as like you now it seems you have to spend >£1500 to get something comparable...

I had been using my 4yr old iPhone 6 up until last month, but found a deal for a Pixel 3 which worked out at £20 per month so went for that! Works out at around £500 over the 24m, which is a good £200 less than the phone cost outright, so I thought it was a decent deal. Don't even use the sim it comes with!
Glad I've made the switch to Android!

motorguy wrote: »

Indeed. Interesting that the Tesla Approved Used cars with a 4 year warranty on that link were around £45K, yet a non Approved Used car can be bought from a dealer for £35K. Big money in warranties as you say.

It does make you wonder though - would the £35K be better and just take your chances?

Interesting dilemma for someone.

Well to bring us back on topic, this is precisely what my father-in-law did only 6/7m ago!

But he took even more risk and went for a 2016 facelift Model S 60 at a BCA auction...

Ended up paying £40k, which is a good £20k under what most dealers would ask for it. So far has no problems! Had some warranty work for rattles looked at, but the car is immaculate and he's driven it to Italy and back!

We keep wondering what the catch is, but even if he were to have a large £10/15k repair bill for something, he still is quids in by all accounts. He never plans on selling it, keeping it for as long as possible and will probably just hand it down the family.

Of course another advantage of EV's is you could look to upgrade the battery pack and repurpose the old degraded batteries for home energy storage

gzoom

It sounds like some of you are on the fence about getting the numbers to work on a Tesla.

I've owned a DC2 ITR, 350Z, BMW 335i modded to 380 whp, all I can say is our current Tesla makes all those cars feel like outdated museum peices. If you can afford the price of entry needed for a 'Premium' EV, so iPace/eTron/Tesla I urge you to take one for a test drive and go for it!!

Yes these are all expensive cars, yes they all depreciate, but life is for living, and if you like driving these EVs are on a different level to anything you will have ever owned.

almillar

Do you think those experiences are untypical of the general publics experiences of batteries, and thus cant you see the skepticism that people might have?

Does that skepticism exist? Yes, agreed. Is it misplaced? Yes.

An EV battery has a big guarantee on it, unlike your laptop battery, for X miles or X years. If it fails, or falls below, say, 75% of original capacity, it gets replaced. Try that with HP after 5 years. Also, there's a whole market for 2nd hand EV batteries - with no supply, because they're simply lasting longer than everyone expected.
And after all that, the most likely problem with a battery is that one cell will fail - replace that cell and away you go. Not the entire battery pack.

GZoom has covered it in much more detail.

forgotmyname

And the headlines are now....

Tesla increasing prices by 3% so they can keep some of the showrooms open.

motorguy

DrEskimo wrote: »

Yup that's certainly a very reasonable argument. I don't know though...I would still be looking to get the Cooper for closer to £16k and then benefit from the slower depreciation. My partners Mini Cooper (1.6 Auto petrol) was bought 3yrs old for £11k and now 5yrs later is still able to fetch around £6k....I imagine similar depreciation levels for a 3yr old Cooper S? Only thing she's had to spend on it is regular serving at out local garage and a £300 thermostat out of the used warranty...

Considering deprecation costs would be nearly half, I feel like there is a fair margin before you need to start worrying about repair bills making the cost of ownership comparable to new.

If you covered the plates and had a new Cooper S next to your used one, would you really be able to tell the difference? That's what I mean by not getting the value...I don't see what you get for spending nearly £5k more on depreciation? Even if it's a model facelift, there really isn't much difference...!

It pretty much had to be a Cooper S for me.

Even an entry level S is £20K, so even getting 10% discount you're looking at £18K, and thats before options. A Cooper S Sport is £22.7K and gets you more of the nice to haves.

Lets run with mine as an example. £21K, so lets say 50% depreciation in 3 years, thats £10.5K.

"Essentials" for me were the bigger alloys, HK sound upgrade, bigger display in centre dash, driving modes, anthracite headcloth, multifunction steering wheel and the LED headlights. Desirable options were central arm rest, split boot floor, 1/2 leather. Colour combo was also important as i didnt want anything too garish.

Having a cursory look on AT and MINI.co.uk, a car with probably only around 50% of my "essentials" and only one or two of the nice to haves is around £14.5K. This one is from a MINI dealer and has the LED lights, bigger central display, driving modes, bigger alloys...

https://approvedusedminis.co.uk/vehicle/201812243464187?quoteref=72ae161f-015c-4d60-b77a-4207a1450c5e

So lets say i get that for £14,000. Applying my 50% rule, gives me £7,000 of depreciation.

For that i'm in a car that doesnt have the spec i want, isnt in the colour combo i want, and is going to be outside of warranty for two of those years.

TBF, the extra £1,000 or so a year is worth it to me for the new car in the spec i wanted, built to order, in the colour combo i wanted and with three years warranty.

I can understand that some people would feel differently about it / be happier with a lesser spec'd car, but TBH i've no issues spending that little bit more for something i want to drive.

motorguy

DrEskimo wrote: »

Well to bring us back on topic, this is precisely what my father-in-law did only 6/7m ago!

But he took even more risk and went for a 2016 facelift Model S 60 at a BCA auction...

Ended up paying £40k, which is a good £20k under what most dealers would ask for it. So far has no problems! Had some warranty work for rattles looked at, but the car is immaculate and he's driven it to Italy and back!

We keep wondering what the catch is, but even if he were to have a large £10/15k repair bill for something, he still is quids in by all accounts. He never plans on selling it, keeping it for as long as possible and will probably just hand it down the family.

Of course another advantage of EV's is you could look to upgrade the battery pack and repurpose the old degraded batteries for home energy storage

Sounds like he got a cracking deal. :beer:

motorguy

gzoom wrote: »

Yes these are all expensive cars, yes they all depreciate, but life is for living, and if you like driving these EVs are on a different level to anything you will have ever owned.

Conversely, in 20 years time we will all have to drive EVs - and by then the products have matured, the infrastructure will be there to support them, and the prices will be more palatable.

So maybe enjoy our internal combustion engines while we can?

DrEskimo

motorguy wrote: »

It pretty much had to be a Cooper S for me.

Even an entry level S is £20K, so even getting 10% discount you're looking at £18K, and thats before options. A Cooper S Sport is £22.7K and gets you more of the nice to haves.

Lets run with mine as an example. £21K, so lets say 50% depreciation in 3 years, thats £10.5K.

"Essentials" for me were the bigger alloys, HK sound upgrade, bigger display in centre dash, driving modes, anthracite headcloth, multifunction steering wheel and the LED headlights. Desirable options were central arm rest, split boot floor, 1/2 leather. Colour combo was also important as i didnt want anything too garish.

Having a cursory look on AT and MINI.co.uk, a car with probably only around 50% of my "essentials" and only one or two of the nice to haves is around £14.5K. This one is from a MINI dealer and has the LED lights, bigger central display, driving modes, bigger alloys...

https://approvedusedminis.co.uk/vehicle/201812243464187?quoteref=72ae161f-015c-4d60-b77a-4207a1450c5e

So lets say i get that for £14,000. Applying my 50% rule, gives me £7,000 of depreciation.

For that i'm in a car that doesnt have the spec i want, isnt in the colour combo i want, and is going to be outside of warranty for two of those years.

TBF, the extra £1,000 or so a year is worth it to me for the new car in the spec i wanted, built to order, in the colour combo i wanted and with three years warranty.

I can understand that some people would feel differently about it / be happier with a lesser spec'd car, but TBH i've no issues spending that little bit more for something i want to drive.

Not sure that 50% depreciation on used is a fair comparison though....?

My OH paid £11k for her 3yr old Mini from a main dealer and she could sell for £6k and it's been 5yrs!

She's only just getting near 50% depreciation....

I take your point about options, andI guess that is the major counter argument to me...it takes months of waiting and research to get the right car at the right spec and the right price! My Zoe is rare (most are battery leased and the economics simply do not work!) and finding one in the right colour, battery owned and for a decent saving from discounted new took 7months of careful watching on websites and dealers and even auctions.

I guess most people simply don't have the time or inclination for that, but I still maintain that the savings are vast if you do....I guess that's like everything in life though!

I rather enjoy it.....:o

gzoom

motorguy wrote: »

So maybe enjoy our internal combustion engines while we can?

I would say 'enjoy' is a strong word to describe the combustion engine once you have lived with an EV .

I had the chance to go back to a combustion car after our original Tesla was written off and the third party insured offered a settlement check for £75K, so £4K more than what we paid for the car. Any sensible person would have grabbed the money and run, but I just couldn't do it, and ended up making them order a replacement Tesla which was higher spec than our car original which meant I had to pay £4K, nuts I know :rotfl:.

Would do the same again now, once you have experienced how good EVs are there is no gain back.

motorguy

DrEskimo wrote: »

Not sure that 50% depreciation on used is a fair comparison though....?

My OH paid £11k for her 3yr old Mini from a main dealer and she could sell for £6k and it's been 5yrs!

She's only just getting near 50% depreciation....

Its a Cooper didnt you say? Dealers are asking from £5700 for 8 year old low miles Coopers. I think £6K from a private sale could be "optimistic". Try plugging it in to WBAC for the raw trade value....

DrEskimo wrote: »

I take your point about options, andI guess that is the major counter argument to me...it takes months of waiting and research to get the right car at the right spec and the right price! My Zoe is rare (most are battery leased and the economics simply do not work!) and finding one in the right colour, battery owned and for a decent saving from discounted new took 7months of careful watching on websites and dealers and even auctions.

I guess most people simply don't have the time or inclination for that, but I still maintain that the savings are vast if you do....I guess that's like everything in life though!

I rather enjoy it.....:o

Yeah different people like different things. I know exactly what i want when i'm buying and when i want to change i tend to do so very quickly - i've my homework done RE: prices etc.

The other constraint i have is that i live in Northern Ireland so the pool of used cars is much more constrained, meaning less likelihood of that car with the right colour combo, right spec, right miles, right history, right price. And being on a day rate i tend not to want to take time off to maybe end up driving a considerable distance and looking at a car that isnt as described.

I've bought used in recent the past, done quite well out of it too, so i'm not adverse to it.

As i've said, i've currently settled on around £10K depreciation every three years and the Cooper S i have is there or thereabouts on that. I wouldnt want an older car with a compromised spec to save a relatively small amount of money.