Tesla Price Reductions

motorguy

DrEskimo wrote: »

Protection from depreciation using PCP is not free though. It costs the buyer in the form of interest. On average continually paying large amounts of interest over the 4/5 decades you need to have a car will far outweigh the risk of large unexpected depreciation.

Buying used and spreading the cost of depreciation over several years will always be the most cost effective means of minimising the impact of depreciation. Even when factoring extended warranties/extra maintenance or out of warranty repairs.

PCP isnt, no, generally, as you often pay interest.

However PCH is - whereby you're just paying for hiring the car, thus how the hirer funds it is not your problem or concern.

I think something like a Tesla or an EV of similar ilk, the "safest" way to get one is via a lease, particularly when the market is ever evolving and people have genuine concerns over battery longevity.

DrEskimo

motorguy wrote: »

PCP isnt, no, generally, as you often pay interest.

However PCH is - whereby you're just paying for hiring the car, thus how the hirer funds it is not your problem or concern.

I think something like a Tesla or an EV of similar ilk, the "safest" way to get one is via a lease, particularly when the market is ever evolving and people have genuine concerns over battery longevity.

I agree, leasing is a different kettle of fish in general, but a lease on a fully loaded MX would probably be more expensive than the PCP.

I also disagree that leasing EV's in general is better. I for example bought a used EV last month, and at the moment it has gone up in value...

Over the 6yrs I intend to keep it (probably longer) it will be completely under warranty, and even using some of the cheapest leasing deals I've found, I estimate it will be upwards of £10k cheaper even considering the most pessimistic residual values (still works out cheaper even if it was worthless....).

gzoom

motorguy wrote: »

I think something like a Tesla or an EV of similar ilk, the "safest" way to get one is via a lease, particularly when the market is ever evolving and people have genuine concerns over battery longevity.

But the concern about battery longevity really is nothing but a myth. The real world data of all EVs show the battery packs are lasting very well.

In the states a company has been using Teslas as a shuttle from LA to Vegas for a few years, harsh sun, daily rapid charging (multiple times).

They publish all their running/maintenance costs for all to see. How many combustion cars get to 300K miles before the end of their working life??

https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2019/2/6/tesloops-high-mileage-teslas

https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/8/2/model-x-90d-300000-miles-in-two-years

I plan on keeping our X for pretty much its entire life, so far 30K and 2 year in my running costs are hilarious:

£0 VED
£0 on servicing - There is nothing to service, tyres have another 10-15K life.
£840 in home electricity costs over 30K
£500 per year insurance

That works out at 6p per mile for running costs, cannot complain for a 6 seater SUV capable of doing 0-60 mph in sub 5 seconds.

prowla

Teslas charging less...

gzoom

DrEskimo wrote: »

I agree, leasing is a different kettle of fish in general, but a lease on a fully loaded MX would probably be more expensive than the PCP.

Telsa never offered any kind of manufacture discounts for third party leasing companies, so even a base S/X was £1000/month+ lease for limited miles.

When we were buying ours we considered PCP, but I knew we would keep the car longterm so residuals wasn't important to us, so why pay interest on PCP when you can buy cash?

The £140K P100D L S/X really are/were toys for those who can afford it.

Arklight

prowla wrote: »

Teslas charging less...

Yes, and 30% is about how much the battery will have degraded after a year also.

motorguy

DrEskimo wrote: »

I also disagree that leasing EV's in general is better. I for example bought a used EV last month, and at the moment it has gone up in value...

Over the 6yrs I intend to keep it (probably longer) it will be completely under warranty, and even using some of the cheapest leasing deals I've found, I estimate it will be upwards of £10k cheaper even considering the most pessimistic residual values (still works out cheaper even if it was worthless....).

I did say though "a Tesla or similar", and with all due respect you have a Zoe?

+/- 20% value on a Zoe is something someone buying a Zoe could take on the chin. On a £100K+ car though it would perhaps become a prohibitive risk.

If i was putting £100K+ in to an electric car, i'd by studying the financing options very carefully, unless i was that rich that it didnt matter. And i dont think there is anyone on this forum thats in that league.

And likewise, when we're talking about something like a Tesla or say, an i8 BMW, having the very latest up to date one can turn the residuals of a previous generation model upside down very quickly.

Dont get me wrong, i think theres a massive amount of sense in what you're doing by getting a Zoe, particularly as you live in London(?), but the maths for you would be very different to some of the high end stuff and associated risk.

motorguy

gzoom wrote: »

But the concern about battery longevity really is nothing but a myth. The real world data of all EVs show the battery packs are lasting very well.

In the states a company has been using Teslas as a shuttle from LA to Vegas for a few years, harsh sun, daily rapid charging (multiple times).

They publish all their running/maintenance costs for all to see. How many combustion cars get to 300K miles before the end of their working life??

https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2019/2/6/tesloops-high-mileage-teslas

https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/8/2/model-x-90d-300000-miles-in-two-years

I plan on keeping our X for pretty much its entire life, so far 30K and 2 year in my running costs are hilarious:

£0 VED
£0 on servicing - There is nothing to service, tyres have another 10-15K life.
£840 in home electricity costs over 30K
£500 per year insurance

That works out at 6p per mile for running costs, cannot complain for a 6 seater SUV capable of doing 0-60 mph in sub 5 seconds.

Oh i agree. But its still a big concern for the general public, and again, focusing back on the point in hand on say £100K+ electric cars and possibly buying them used, is there any published figures on the guaranteed duration of a battery pack in for example an i8 and how much it would cost to do so?

And i think thats peoples concern - and possibly rightly so. It might not be so hilarious if your car needs a £20K battery pack in a few years time....

DrEskimo

motorguy wrote: »

I did say though "a Tesla or similar", and with all due respect you have a Zoe?

+/- 20% value on a Zoe is something someone buying a Zoe could take on the chin. On a £100K+ car though it would perhaps become a prohibitive risk.

If i was putting £100K+ in to an electric car, i'd by studying the financing options very carefully, unless i was that rich that it didnt matter. And i dont think there is anyone on this forum thats in that league.

And likewise, when we're talking about something like a Tesla or say, an i8 BMW, having the very latest up to date one can turn the residuals of a previous generation model upside down very quickly.

Dont get me wrong, i think theres a massive amount of sense in what you're doing by getting a Zoe, particularly as you live in London(?), but the maths for you would be very different to some of the high end stuff and associated risk.

But I don't think PCP/PCH does anything to protect from this risk, that was the point I was trying to make.

All you do is substitute a potential cost that might never be realised, with a guaranteed cost in the form of interest.

I think a used Tesla does even more to demonstrate how buying used is the most cost effective means at protecting yourself from depreciation. Particularly as used Tesla's come with a 4yr warranty.

I don't live in London no, I work there but commute by train. As it happens I am perhaps the worse use case for trying to demonstrate the cost savings of a EV, as I do very little miles, don't have a home charger! However, even comparing it to a used petrol Mini that we've owned for over 5yrs that has cost very little in repairs or maintenance, the EV is still a considerable cost saving, comes better equipped and is nicer to drive!

gzoom

motorguy wrote: »

And i think thats peoples concern - and possibly rightly so. It might not be so hilarious if your car needs a £20K battery pack in a few years time....

I'll be willing to bet pretty much everything I own I will not have any worried about battery degradation/wear till 2025 at the earliest:).

Am not a betting man normally but on this issue I'm more than happy to take anyone up on this.