Cheapest Petrol & Diesel Discussion Area

gmjawajrm

JDPower wrote: »

Your model has a high injector failure rate, your's hasn't failed. That doesn't mean every injector ever made for it will fail. Doesn't mean your's won't fail at any moment. And doesn't mean there's any correlation whatsoever between that and your fuel. There's way too many variables that could be involved in that even if your injectors lasted 100 years. Speculation and opinion does not make something fact.

but thats the point im not talking about 1 vehicle its been 6 same model vehicles, my injectors are not failing and never failed in any of them ,yet in the model i use they are getting about 100,000 miles sometimes alot less before they fail cause they are feeding cheap deisel into them ,yes i could just be lucky but with luck like that maybe i should do the lottery

JDPower

gmjawajrm wrote: »

but thats the point im not talking about 1 vehicle its been 6 same model vehicles, my injectors are not failing and never failed in any of them ,yet in the model i use they are getting about 100,000 miles sometimes alot less before they fail cause they are feeding cheap deisel into them

Or because of the way they're driving them, maintaining them etc etc etc.

I have no opinion either way on whether one is any better than the other, it just amuses me the way petrol snobs are so completely certain in their opinion yet have absolutely no concrete proof to back it up, just speculation, rumour and Chinese whispers.

John_Pierpoint

Do we all agree that diesel engines benefit from a session of blowing the cobwebs pit as against a life of school runs?

The link to the co-marketing site yielded this interesting little nugget of information:
Here’s a link to Chevron’s corporate website. Click on the “Techron” tab for their take on the OEMs and the fuel they “use.”
“Well Worth the Effort”
“Since 1973, all three major Detroit auto manufacturers use Chevron gasoline to help their new engines pass the tough EPA emissions system durability tests which are now as long as 120,000 miles.”
“And they go a long way to prove it, because Chevron doesn’t market gasoline anywhere near the Michigan home of the Big Three automakers. They use Chevron gasoline with Techron, even though they must buy it in Kentucky and pay to truck it all the way to the Detroit area.
The Big Three agree: Chevron with Techron is worth the extra effort.”
Not my words, theirs. Go figure eh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techron


So in America the engines are being expected to deliver a life of 120K miles.


I think cars are dying as follows:
1960's and some 1970's cars died in the 1980's because the MOT took them out for corrosion.
1970's and some 1980's cars died in the 2000's because the MOT took then out for emissions failures.
Now 1990 and some 2000 cars are dying because the of the costs of repairing technology failures, particularly the PMC:- the "computer". As far as I know the computer chips don't come in contact with supermarket fuel.


I have absolutely no proof for this, except for personal experience.

I live quite near the still functioning refinery in Essex. It used to be BP but it is now owned by some Swiss administered organisation. I've see all sorts of different "brands" of fuel coming out of there so perhaps they do pour the magic ingredients in as the tanker is filled?

Do you remember when petrol engined cars were breaking down because some clown at a blending plant close to the Dartford tunnel had put diesel anti foaming agent into the petrol tanks?
If I remember correctly one of the big supermarkets was not affected, thus proving that not all supplies to supermarkets are the same?
As various political and technical problems change the supply of crude on the world market, refineries are forced to process what they can get; so can we be sure that the product that comes out of the refinery last month is identical to what comes out this month?
Can we be sure that a mechanical breakdown is caused by using supermarket brand xxx rather than oil company brand yyy when it all gets mixed up anyway?
How many doses of xxx does it take to undo the supposed good work of yyy. (Well in the case of non foaming petrol only one tankful?!?)

Shall we now talk about branded tyres?

david39

From 40 years in the supply and marketing in the oil industry I can vouch that the fuel that supermarkets draw comes from the same tanks as that of the major-brand suppliers. I do mean the same tanks and not different tanks in the same depot.

The difference is in the additives that are added, which come from a separate supply tank, while the fuel is being loaded into the tanker. The company drawing the fuel decides whether it will pay an extra (roughly) 0.9 p per litre for the additive or not. Either way, the fuel will meet all of the British and European specs for each individual product. The additives just give additional benefits which may, or may not be, advantageous.

All major brands draw from each other's bulk storage. So, say, a Shell tanker drawing from their own storage in Stanlow, Cheshire and travelling to a delivery in say, Hull, will then travel on to Total or Conoco's refineries on Humberside to draw it's next load from there for a delivery on the return journey, rather than travelling empty all the way back to Stanlow. Reciprocal arrangements apply for the reverse procedure.

This exchange of product goes on all the time between companies and the supermarkets draw fuel out of all these same depots also.

Incidentally, BP have no refining capacity in this country at all now and draw all their petrol and diesel from other suppliers. It looks as though Total is also trying to divest itself of its refineries in the UK.

I-LOV-MONEY

Are you able to say, which, if any, of the additives enhance your mpg? With your knowledge would you be likely to fill up with any particular brand or do you just go to the nearest (cheapest ?!) filling station available?

david39

Are you able to say, which, if any, of the additives enhance your mpg?

As far as I am aware, the additive package that goes into fuel is a standard one throughout the industry, so the major brands will carry the same additive.

Occasionally a brand (Shell in the past) will advertise they have a specialised additive and this will be added manually at the supply point and would be unavailable to other brands. I am long retired from the industry so cannot give an up to date picture on this. Maybe Shell's V-Power is such a case or, they may just be bulling up the advertising of their 97 octane petrol.

Regarding your question, one can assume that all the major brands carry the extra additives - it is some of the minor brands that may opt out and, maybe, some of the smaller supermarkets. You cannot tell from their advertising - they all say they contain additives, which is true because even the base product has an additive content to keep it within the BS and EU specs. I suspect that the major supermarkets do include the optional additives in their fuel - they are classed as major fuel marketers and no longer depend upon price as their main selling point.

The additional additive package's main benefits are improvements in engine cleanliness, antifoaming, improved cold-starting and control of pre-ignition.

grizzly1911

david39 wrote: »

From 40 years in the supply and marketing in the oil industry

Thank you for this clarity.

grizzly1911

david39 wrote: »

Maybe Shell's V-Power is such a case or, they may just be bulling up the advertising of their 97 octane petrol.

Interestingly they also market a V Power Diesel which has caught me out a couple of times, I didn't buy it just had to shuffle to the next available standard pump.

Interestingly with diesel it sometimes smells "nicer" as exhaust not sure if this is down to the detergent or bio diesel.

Another poster a while ago did make some mention of Sulphur content, within parameters, being one of the variables that could have some impact on engine endurance but that this was variable in brands as much as anywhere else.

grizzly1911

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

Shall we now talk about branded tyres?

Or dishwasher tablets;)

gmjawajrm

sorry i wasted my time tellng you all about crap supermarket diesel , hope im not proved right by your pumps and injectors failing