Top Cash ISAs Discussion Area

10_66

flergalwit wrote: »

Can I have confirmation on this? I've read things that appear to contradict it, saying you can only *open* one cash ISA per year, regardless of how many you subscribe to.

Is there a definitive reference that settles this matter either way?

Probably if you hunt around on direct.gov.uk website or hmrc.gov.uk website. I don't blame you for wanting to see if for yourself and not take my word for it , but you can open as many cash ISAs as you like, but you can only subscribe the current year's allowance into one. If you opened an ISA with this year's subscription (providing the terms and conditions of the particular ISA), there is nothing stopping you opening another and transferring it into the new one, but the current year's ISA must not be split between different ISAs.

flergalwit

10_66 wrote: »

Probably if you hunt around on direct.gov.uk website or hmrc.gov.uk website. I don't blame you for wanting to see if for yourself and not take my word for it , but you can open as many cash ISAs as you like, but you can only subscribe the current year's allowance into one. If you opened an ISA with this year's subscription (providing the terms and conditions of the particular ISA), there is nothing stopping you opening another and transferring it into the new one, but the current year's ISA must not be split between different ISAs.

Thank you. It's not that I don't trust anyone - rather I've seen contradictory advice on this from different sources. What seems most likely is that those who say you can only open one per year assume you're going to subscribe to the accounts you're opening.

It's very frustrating that there's all this talk of the ISA rules on the web, yet it seems hard to actually find a copy of these rules. There are lots of sites that attempt to summarize the rules, but nowhere I can find that actually quotes them verbatim.

10_66

flergalwit wrote: »

Thank you. It's not that I don't trust anyone - rather I've seen contradictory advice on this from different sources. What seems most likely is that those who say you can only open one per year assume you're going to subscribe to the accounts you're opening.

It's very frustrating that there's all this talk of the ISA rules on the web, yet it seems hard to actually find a copy of these rules. There are lots of sites that attempt to summarize the rules, but nowhere I can find that actually quotes them verbatim.

Don't know whether THIS link will help answer your question.

flergalwit

10_66 wrote: »

Don't know whether [link removed] will help answer your question.

Thanks, though as that page doesn't even say that you can't pay money into more than one Cash ISA per year (which we know to be true), it's clearly rather incomplete.

A little earlier I called the "ISA Helpline" linked on that page. After faffing about for over 20 minutes on the line, they didn't know the answer but will arrange for a "technical advisor" to call me back within 3 working days.

There's also an ISA FAQ on the hmrc website, whose "How many ISAs can I have?" question only puts limits on the number of accounts you can "subscribe to" and "put money into" (which I assume mean the same thing), rather than putting any limits on how many you can open, so this offers some (admittedly weak) support for the idea you can open as many as you like.

I'll let y'all know what the "technical advisor" says next week.

10_66

flergalwit wrote: »

...There's also an ISA FAQ on the hmrc website, whose "How many ISAs can I have?" question only puts limits on the number of accounts you can "subscribe to" and "put money into" (which I assume mean the same thing)...

Not necessarily the same. Subscribe generally means what you're allowed to pay in for the current year. Put money into can mean transferring existing ISAs into other ISAs.

flergalwit

10_66 wrote: »

Not necessarily the same. Subscribe generally means what you're allowed to pay in for the current year. Put money into can mean transferring existing ISAs into other ISAs.

I don't think that can be the intended meaning of "put money", because you *are* allowed to put your £5,340 for the year into one account and then transfer the whole thing to a second account. By the definition of "put money" you refer to, that would be putting money into two accounts in the same tax year, which the FAQ says isn't allowed.

At any rate, the main point (that opening more than one Cash ISA account per tax year is ok if you don't pay money into more than one) seems valid as far as that FAQ goes, unless "subscribe" can simply mean "open", without paying any money in - which seems unlikely.

gunmaker

Can I have confirmation on this? I've read things that appear to contradict it, saying you can only *open* one cash ISA per year, regardless of how many you subscribe to. Is there a definitive reference that settles this matter either way?

You can only subscribe to one ISA in any one tax year. Therefore there isn't much point in opening more than one a year even if you could.

You can of course open one cash ISA and one Stocks & Shares ISA each year.

The figures quoted in the following link are incorrect now but I think the rules are the same.

http://www.isa.co.uk/isa-knowledge-base/how-many-isas-can-you-have.aspx

blueberrypie

gunmaker wrote: »

You can only subscribe to one ISA in any one tax year. Therefore there isn't much point in opening more than one a year even if you could.[/url]

It's not a case of "even if you could", because you can. Again, you can open as many as you want.

The link you gave says:

Individuals cannot open more than one of each type of account each year.

But in fact that is wrong. Whoever wrote it has tried to simplify matters by avoiding the term "subscribe" - and in simplifying, they've ended up with something completely inaccurate, becausing "opening" and "subscribing" are two different things.

And there often *is* a point in opening more than one ISA in a year. For example:

Jim has £30,000 saved in ISAs. He also has £5000 new funds to contribute to an ISA for the current tax year. He wants to get a good rate, but he's concerned that if he puts all his ISA money into a long-term fix, interest rates will rise and he'll lose out. He also wants to have some money available for emergencies.

So:
- he opens an ISA with his bank, intending to use his current year's allowance to fund it
- but then he sees the bank next year is offering a better rate, so he opens that, and puts this year's allowance in there instead. The ISA he just opened with his own bank has never been funded, so it doesn't (legally) count
- the ISA he opened for this year's allowance doesn't accept transfers-in, so he has to look elsewhere for the funds he's previously saved
- he opens one five-year fixed-rate ISA and transfers £12000 into it - to get the best rate he can for transferred funds
- he opens one two-year fixed-rate ISA and transfers £12000 into it - if interest rates rise in the next two years, he'll have funds he can transfer to a higher-rate ISA without penalty
- he opens one variable-rate ISA and transfers £6000 into it - this is money he can access if he has emergency house repairs or needs a new car or needs the money for some other unforeseen expense.

Jim can quite legally open all five of these ISAs on the same day, never mind in the same year. He has only *subscribed* to one, as per the legal limit.

I think a huge amount of the confusion over ISAs is caused by the fact that the term "subscribe" isn't explained properly. It's not helped when companies who provide ISAs set up websites which make them sound like official rule-writers (like the one you linked to) and then get it wrong.

iblametheparents

blueberrypie wrote: »

It's not a case of "even if you could", because you can. Again, you can open as many as you want.

The link you gave says:


But in fact that is wrong. Whoever wrote it has tried to simplify matters by avoiding the term "subscribe" - and in simplifying, they've ended up with something completely inaccurate, becausing "opening" and "subscribing" are two different things.

And there often *is* a point in opening more than one ISA in a year. For example:

Jim has £30,000 saved in ISAs. He also has £5000 new funds to contribute to an ISA for the current tax year. He wants to get a good rate, but he's concerned that if he puts all his ISA money into a long-term fix, interest rates will rise and he'll lose out. He also wants to have some money available for emergencies.

So:
- he opens an ISA with his bank, intending to use his current year's allowance to fund it
- but then he sees the bank next year is offering a better rate, so he opens that, and puts this year's allowance in there instead. The ISA he just opened with his own bank has never been funded, so it doesn't (legally) count
- the ISA he opened for this year's allowance doesn't accept transfers-in, so he has to look elsewhere for the funds he's previously saved
- he opens one five-year fixed-rate ISA and transfers £12000 into it - to get the best rate he can for transferred funds
- he opens one two-year fixed-rate ISA and transfers £12000 into it - if interest rates rise in the next two years, he'll have funds he can transfer to a higher-rate ISA without penalty
- he opens one variable-rate ISA and transfers £6000 into it - this is money he can access if he has emergency house repairs or needs a new car or needs the money for some other unforeseen expense.

Jim can quite legally open all five of these ISAs on the same day, never mind in the same year. He has only *subscribed* to one, as per the legal limit.

I think a huge amount of the confusion over ISAs is caused by the fact that the term "subscribe" isn't explained properly. It's not helped when companies who provide ISAs set up websites which make them sound like official rule-writers (like the one you linked to) and then get it wrong.

Barclays have a minimum opening balance of £1 for their ISAs, so when you open it you have to subscribe to it. I don't know if this is the same as other banks.

blueberrypie

iblametheparents wrote: »

Barclays have a minimum opening balance of £1 for their ISAs, so when you open it you have to subscribe to it. I don't know if this is the same as other banks.

Read the t&c - here's an example: http://www.barclays.co.uk/Savings/ISAs/CashISAndashLoyaltyRewardISA/P1242580433210

Cash ISA Terms
Payments into and out of the account
3.1 You must make an initial deposit of at least £1 (with the exception of transfers-in) when you open the account after which you can make deposits at any time.

I don't think Barclays is currently offering any ISAs which allow transfers-in, but the above is the standard wording on their t&c.