One Parking Solution PCN + Gladstones - Parked for 8mins, LBC for £208!

Le_Kirk

'reasonable grace period in which to decided if they are going to stay or go'

Perhaps: -

'reasonable grace period in which to decide if they are going to stay or go'

Is it not therefore better to just cancel this PCN in its entirety?

I wouldn't finish with a question like that as they could just say NO! I would say: -

In light of the foregoing, I expect to see this PCN cancelled.

StubbornGoat

I made the suggested edits and added a bit more...

Dear X

You have failed to respond to a number of issues I raised.

You state that "Any issues with the site would have been addressed and rectified at this stage.", though if thats the case, why does your clients site NOW show 'Pay & Display' white writing on the road when it was not there at the time the PCN was issued. If that was not an issue, then why rectify it?

As I said in my last letter, the BPA CoP format is to display a large 'P' entrance sign, not pseudo Council-style 'give way', 5mph and speed bump signage immediately before two unmarked white bays.

Moving on, you suggest that there is "ample signage around the site making motorists aware of the terms and conditions to park without incurring a charge.", yet what I note is small unreadable signs around the site, but not one of the signs mention any tarriff or charge, or penalty or fine. So where is the contract between the driver and your client?

You correctly point out that the BPA CoP says your Client should allow the driver a 'reasonable grace period in which to decide if they are going to stay or go', however you also concede the "content of the sign may not [be] wholly readable in the photograph". So if a picture being taken from a person outside of the car is unreadable... how is it possible for a driver in a moving car to read any of these signs? Therefore even if we were to ignore the fact that from outside the car the signs are unreadable - the grace period should ultimately, at the very least, start from the moment the driver steps out of the car. The driver in this case was outside of the car for a time of just 8 minutes. Which would fall into the grace period advised by the BPA CoP 13.4.

I am content to fight this case in court should it get there, and should your client proceed I will be claiming all costs when you lose.

In light of the foregoing, I expect to see this PCN cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

Coupon-mad

Looks very good. So pleased to see Gs concede that the little sign unexpectedly placed on the back of a give way sign is illegible...hmmm...fairly fundamental then, as is the requirement for the sum of the parking charge to be stated in large letters!

I would add a bit here, as OPS can't start the clock at a point when the driver can't know anything about any contract, restriction, or charge nor even that she was on private land:

Therefore even if we were to ignore the fact that from outside the car the signs are unreadable - the grace period should ultimately, at the very least, start from the moment the driver steps out of the car. The absence of any entrance signage means that your client cannot in all seriousness, start the clock at the entrance to what looks like an unrestricted small side road, at a point in time where the driver had no opportunity at all, to learn about the predatory protection racket operated by OPS, nor even that this was apparently private land.

If you are still failing to grasp the fundamental omissions in the signs, perhaps you should consult your friends at the IPC on the next desk, to find out when & why this woeful signage was 'rectified' and what they think about the missing entrance signage and lack of parking charge stated? They will tell you there is no contract possible, although I think in your heart you already know that, as do the forum members assisting me in this routine Gladstones scam-fight.

Also, that image of the CCTV warning and other sign on the very low wall behind the pole, is ONLY there in the June 2018 Google Street View.

They are NOT THERE IN THE GSV MAY 2017 IMAGE (NOR EARLIER).

To see May 2017 as an option in the GSV timeline you have to go back a shops's length and approach from the South. When you do, you can see the signs are not there and a paler brick is obvious at that place. Compare that with June 2018.

It seems likely to me, that the 'Pay & Display' white writing on the road and those low signs were added together, some time AFTER September 2017, in an attempt to get the site past a failed IPC audit.

Add that to your email...tell Gs their client is trying to use false evidence and if they do not retract this image then you will report Gs to the SRA for knowingly misleading a Litigant in Person.

StubbornGoat

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Also, that image of the CCTV warning and other sign on the very low wall behind the pole, is ONLY there in the June 2018 Google Street View.

They are NOT THERE IN THE GSV MAY 2017 IMAGE (NOR EARLIER).

To see May 2017 as an option in the GSV timeline you have to go back a shops's length and approach from the South. When you do, you can see the signs are not there and a paler brick is obvious at that place. Compare that with June 2018.

I got all excited and was looking forward to sharing this news with Gs. Unfortunately however, when I go back to where you suggest, the timeline changes to Jun 2016. So they could just say that the sign was there before the PCN was issued.

Thanks for the edit to the letter though.

Coupon-mad

No, I explained how to see the May 2017 view! There is a knack to it.

Try again as I explained, it took some positioning but I did it then expanded the screen to zoom in from distance (May 2017).

BTW I made a mistake here, as OPS are in the BPA not IPC:

in an attempt to get the site past a failed IPC audit.

Maybe change that to a 'failed DVLA audit'.

So, here's another fightback action:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/dvla

Make an FOI request right now to the DVLA, listing the exact site by name/postcode and requiring them to show you the dates and details (with copy documents and emails, suitably redacted of names) for any DVLA Audits (failed or passed) and all communications with One Parking Solutions or the BPA, relating to the signs at that site, between 1.1.17 to date.

StubbornGoat

Coupon-mad wrote: »

No, I explained how to see the May 2017 view! There is a knack to it.

Try again as I explained, it took some positioning but I did it then expanded the screen to zoom in from distance (May 2017).

I must be doing it wrong then, because this is what I see... https://i.postimg.cc/XqCqcYFb/no-CCTVsign.jpg. I'll try again

Make an FOI request right now to the DVLA, listing the exact site by name/postcode and requiring them to show you the dates and details (with copy documents and emails, suitably redacted of names) for any DVLA Audits (failed or passed) and all communications with One Parking Solutions or the BPA, relating to the signs at that site, between 1.1.17 to date.

On it!

Coupon-mad

Turn and go South a few yards, then turn round again to face that wall, from a bit further away!

May 2017 comes up - but isn't there as an option if you try to get closer. However you can see there is no sign, as the pole has nothing behind it.

StubbornGoat

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Try again as I explained, it took some positioning but I did it then expanded the screen to zoom in from distance (May 2017).

Is this the view you're referring to? https://i.postimg.cc/x1wYDVXs/no-CCTVsign2.jpg

StubbornGoat

It does require a knack... and I may have this wrong still, but this image (May 2017) shows the signs unfortunately https://i.postimg.cc/0y0g3KqN/no-CCTVsign3.jpg

Coupon-mad

Yes I saw the same thing when I tried again. The odd thing is, the more you hop about, the wall seems to be painted white in 2017 but was brick-coloured in 2016 and again in 2018!

Also some views from May 2017 seem to show the sign...I saw what you saw this time.

I am confused now! Maybe just put BW Legal to proof from DVLA audits or their client's records from BPA Audits and works done, as to when the white writing and low signs were added.

Don't tip them off you are getting DVLA Audits by FOI as that takes a month.