Congestion Charge 24hr window - please help break this down for me!

System

brianposter wrote: »

The erroneous assumption is that someone outside their normal ambit has easy internet access. Many will be like DevilsAdvocate and only have internet access when they get home.

So they don't carry a mobile phone around with them made in the last decade that has internet access? I would imagine the number of people who have a mobile phone that can't get online is in the fractions of a fraction of a percent. And they don't even need data on their phone they can just use a free public wifi hotspot when they're sat at Costa/McDonalds/Starbucks/WHSmith etc.

Claiming someone in 2018/19 doesn't have internet access until they get home is stretching the bounds of credulity.

brianposter

Tarambor wrote: »

So they don't carry a mobile phone around with them made in the last decade that has internet access? I would imagine the number of people who have a mobile phone that can't get online is in the fractions of a fraction of a percent. And they don't even need data on their phone they can just use a free public wifi hotspot when they're sat at Costa/McDonalds/Starbucks/WHSmith etc.

Claiming someone in 2018/19 doesn't have internet access until they get home is stretching the bounds of credulity.

As I understand things about 10% of the UK population do not have mobile phone coverage at home so why would they have a smartphone ?

Aylesbury_Duck

brianposter wrote: »

As I understand things about 10% of the UK population do not have mobile phone coverage at home so why would they have a smartphone ?

Because they still work for all the other functions, including calling and messaging via wifi. I have no phone signal at work and at home it's patchy (rural Kent) but I still use a smartphone, as do all my colleagues.

Why should a payment system be set up in an arcane way just to satisfy a tiny minority of people who want to spontaneously drive their car into the very centre of London and who choose never to access the internet? The overlap of those two circles on a Venn diagram must be miniscule.

AdrianC

brianposter wrote: »

As I understand things about 10% of the UK population do not have mobile phone coverage at home so why would they have a smartphone ?

I have zero mobile coverage at home. I have a smart phone.

What I don't have is any data on the smartphone - although if necessary, I'll add some, although ad-hoc data tends to work out expensive on PAYG. But I do know that there's plenty of wifi available, especially somewhere like That London.

You used to be able to pay for the CC at shops and petrol stations - that was removed in 2013, saving TfL £600k/year, because only 4% of payments were done that way, down from 37% when the CC first started in 2003.


https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2013/july/paying-congestion-charge-in-shops-and-petrol-stations-to-end-as-popularity-falls

steedoc

Aylesbury Duck, I did 'a little research'. I heard there was a congestion charge for going to the centre of London, so I went to the TFL website page to check how much it would be ( goto tfl website: modes/driving/congestion-charge]) (can't post the url as new member). After reading this page I saw it would be £11.50 and that I would be able to pay the charge by clicking the button. THERE IS NO MENTION ABOUT THE ARBITRARILY SHORT TIME WINDOW OF 30 HRS on that website page.

Also, I noted when entering the zone that I was indeed now inside the zone just before 6pm and I would have to pay, which indeed I tried to do very shortly after my trip.

"Because 24 hours gives plenty of time to check once you've accidentally or spontaneously driven past the big signs and the coloured markings on the road and wondered what they are and how they might affect you."
- says you!! It is not long enough, and it's only obvious when you know the answer.

Even if this scheme had been in place a 100 years, it wouldn't matter, my argument is that people generally know about the charge, or they know when they see the signs, but the imposition of a 30hr payment window is arbitrarily short and is only obvious when you know.

steedoc

John G Jones, thanks for pointing out it is in fact 31 hours.

In my case I popped in 15 minutes before 6pm for a hospital appointment, and attempted to pay in good faith some 30 hours later and found I could not.

Aylesbury_Duck

steedoc wrote: »

Aylesbury Duck, I did 'a little research'. I heard there was a congestion charge for going to the centre of London, so I went to the TFL website page to check how much it would be ( goto tfl website: modes/driving/congestion-charge]) (can't post the url as new member). After reading this page I saw it would be £11.50 and that I would be able to pay the charge by clicking the button. THERE IS NO MENTION ABOUT THE ARBITRARILY SHORT TIME WINDOW OF 30 HRS on that website page.

What's this then, which is front and centre when you click on the "Congestion charge payments" button?

"You can pay in advance, on the day of travel or by midnight the following charging day. The daily charge is £11.50 if you pay in advance or on the same day, or £14 if paid the following charging day.

If you don't pay by midnight on the charging day after you drove in the zone, you'll get a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN)."

Seems pretty clear to me.

steedoc

AdrianC and Aylesbury Duck, I do object to you sabotaging my thread with massive obnoxious pictures that to do pertain to the issue at hand.

Likewise, Tarambor, treboeth, and Shaun From Africa, you have obnoxiously chosen to ignore my complaint and instead strawman my complaint.

THE ISSUE IS NOT ABOUT WHETHER I HAVE TO PAY A CHARGE, OR WHETHER THE SIGNAGE IS ACCURATE. IT IS ABOUT THE CRAZY RULE ABOUT PAYMENT in UNDER 30 HOURS.

It's like there is a rule that you have to be wearing a brown tie when inside the congestion zone, and of course if you know that it's perfectly reasonable. BUT it does not cohere with reason itself. This is my point.

It is not the driver's responsibility to untangle this odd rule, which has no reason to exist other than catching out honest motorists to generate revenue. It is TFL's responsibility to act IN GOOD FAITH and allow people to pay for entering the congestion zone.

In my case, I don't have a smartphone, as a question of taste (which seems to be lacking on this forum). I have a regular phone. I tried to pay for the charge when I was reunited with my computer 30 hours later - and could not.

steedoc

Aylesbury_Duck wrote: »

What's this then, which is front and centre when you click on the "Congestion charge payments" button?

"You can pay in advance, on the day of travel or by midnight the following charging day. The daily charge is £11.50 if you pay in advance or on the same day, or £14 if paid the following charging day.

If you don't pay by midnight on the charging day after you drove in the zone, you'll get a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN)."

Seems pretty clear to me.

Question for you Aylesbury - why did you click that button? I would suggest the only reason you clicked that button (after reading the information on the rest of the page) was to find the odd line about the rule to catch me out.

No reasonable person would click that button after reading all the information on that page unless they were about to pay. I was not in a position to pay prior because I was not sure I would have to enter.

So my point stands, there is no good reason to assume I would have to click that button, or that I would have 24 hours to pay, after doing due diligence and reading the information on that TFL website.

Also, you demonstrate extreme bias in your responses when you LIE about the name of the button, which is not labelled "Congestion charge payments", but it is named "Pay the Charge"

Aylesbury_Duck

steedoc wrote: »

AdrianC and Aylesbury Duck, I do object to you sabbotagging my thread with massive obnoxious pictures that to do pertain to the issue at hand.

Likewise, Tarambor, treboeth, and Shaun From Africa, you have obnoxiously chosen to ignore my complaint and instead strawman my complaint.

THE ISSUE IS NOT ABOUT WHETHER I HAVE TO PAY A CHARGE, OR WHETHER THE SIGNAGE IS ACCURATE. IT IS ABOUT THE CRAZY RULE ABOUT PAYMENT in UNDER 30 HOURS.

It's like there is a rule that you have to be wearing a brown tie when inside the congestion zone, and of course if you know that it's perfectly reasonable. BUT it does not cohere with reason itself. This is my point.

It is not driver's responsibility to untangle this odd rule, which has no reason to exist other than catching out honest motorists to generate revenue. It is TFL's responsibility to act IN GOOD FAITH and allow people to pay for entering the congestion zone.

In my case, I don't have a smartphone, as a question (which seems to be lacking on this forum). I have a regular phone. I tried to pay for the charge when I was reunited with my computer 30 hours later - and could not.

It's not "your thread", it is there for anyone to read and I hope that the information people are posting is of use to others. You may not like the answers you're getting but that doesn't make them wrong, or sabotaging.

It is absolutely the driver's responsibility to "untangle this odd [but perfectly well explained] rule". You may believe the rule has no reason to exist other than catching out honest motorists to generate revenue but you're wrong. It is TFL's responsibility to act IN GOOD FAITH and allow people to pay for entering the congestion zone. They do.