Congestion Charge 24hr window - please help break this down for me!

steedoc

Dear Forum,

I am outraged AND utterly furious that I cannot pay my London congestion charge, only 30hrs after I was in London for the first time.

I have learned that I will be sent a penalty for £160 (reducible to £80), and there is nothing I can do to pay my congestion charge.

This is obscene bad faith on the part of TFL, they are making a fortune from first-time users of the service, who are trying to pay within a reasonable time frame (ie 2-3 days).

There is no good reason they shouldn't make the window 2 or 3 days, and have clearly established this tiny unreasonable window to maximise revenue from penalties.

Their defense will be that they 'have to set a line somewhere', but clearly 24hrs is far too tight --- and of course when you know about this unreasonable and restrictive time frame you are happy - and it seems to make perfect sense - but for every first timer it is an outrage and an expensive lesson.

This £160 fine is not so much a penalty change, but a BLANKET charge for any reasonably minded person who is using the service for the first time.

It's an outrage and it has to stop.

Or am i missing something?

Appreciate your thoughts.

Steve

Aylesbury_Duck

steedoc wrote: »

Dear Forum,

I am outraged AND utterly furious that I cannot pay my London congestion charge, only 30hrs after I was in London for the first time.

I have learned that I will be sent a penalty for £160 (reducible to £80), and there is nothing I can do to pay my congestion charge.

This is obscene bad faith on the part of TFL, they are making a fortune from first-time users of the service, who are trying to pay within a reasonable time frame (ie 2-3 days).

There is no good reason they shouldn't make the window 2 or 3 days, and have clearly established this tiny unreasonable window to maximise revenue from penalties.

Their defense will be that they 'have to set a line somewhere', but clearly 24hrs is far too tight --- and of course when you know about this unreasonable and restrictive time frame you are happy - and it seems to make perfect sense - but for every first timer it is an outrage and an expensive lesson.

This £160 fine is not so much a penalty change, but a BLANKET charge for any reasonably minded person who is using the service for the first time.

It's an outrage and it has to stop.

Or am i missing something?

Appreciate your thoughts.

Steve

You're missing something. The rules are quite clear. 24 hours is perfectly reasonable in the internet age. There's an argument that if the payment window was longer, people would forget. You clearly did.

It is not an outrage.

AdrianC

steedoc wrote: »

I am outraged AND utterly furious that I cannot pay my London congestion charge, only 30hrs after I was in London for the first time.

That's really unlucky timing - the CC stops at 6pm, so you must have entered just as it was going out of operation, and tried to pay just after the following midnight. So 6hrs on the evening of that day, plus the following 24hrs = 30hrs.

I guess you're still fuming because you've posted at 7pm just after finding out. I dunno about you, but I make 6 + 24 + 19 = 49hrs.

Oh, wait. No. Today's Monday, and the CC doesn't apply over the weekend, so it must have been Friday. 6 + 24 + 24 + 19 = 73hrs.

Oh, wait. No. You can pay up to midnight on the next charging day. So it must have been Thursday. 6 + 24 + 24 + 24 + 19 = 97hrs.

This is obscene bad faith on the part of TFL, they are making a fortune from first-time users of the service, who are trying to pay within a reasonable time frame (ie 2-3 days).

I know, and it's only 16 years since it was introduced...

Their defense will be that they 'have to set a line somewhere', but clearly 24hrs is far too tight --- and of course when you know about this unreasonable and restrictive time frame you are happy - and it seems to make perfect sense - but for every first timer it is an outrage and an expensive lesson.

Look on the bright side - for the first three and a bit years, you had to pay the same day. Then they introduced a 25% premium to pay the next day. It's only just over 20% premium to pay the next day now. You've never had it so good!

If you'd never driven into the CC Zone in the 16yrs it's been operating, I'd have thought you'd take the time to have a little look before entering...? Just a thought...
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge/paying-the-congestion-charge

Goudy

These issues are going to get a lot worse from the 8th April as that is when they introduce the ULEZ on top of the Congestion Charge, so it could be another £12.50 on top of the CC Charge.

Basically it's another charge, this time it operates 24/7 rather than Mon to Fri 7am to 6pm.

You'll be charged if you drive or ride anything that doesn't met these standards.
Euro 3 for motorcycles, mopeds, motorised tricycles and quadricycles
Euro 4 for petrol cars, vans, minibuses and other specialist vehicles
Euro 6 for diesel cars, vans and minibuses and other specialist vehicles
Euro VI for lorries, buses and coaches and other specialist heavy vehicles

To start with it's just inside the CC zone but in 2021 they are planning to expand the zone to everything inside the North and South Circular roads.

At the same time they are messing around with the CC discounts.
Cars that produce 75g/km or less which used to qualify for a discount will now have to have a zero emissions range of 20 miles, but you'd be mad to buy one as they are changing the goal posts again in 2021 when only pure electric qualify.

All those poor !!!!!!s that spent a fortune on Yaris Hybrids aren't happy.

Where everyone is going to charge these pure EV's up is anyone's guess, cities are full of flats and apartments which puts home charging literally out of reach and there's very little on street charging about and none in residential areas.

brianposter

Well I agree with the OP - 24 hours is simply stupid.
And then they wonder why people from the rest of the country voted for Brexit.

Aylesbury_Duck

brianposter wrote: »

Well I agree with the OP - 24 hours is simply stupid.
And then they wonder why people from the rest of the country voted for Brexit.

Yes, it was because of the congestion charge rules. Of course it was.

brianposter

Aylesbury_Duck wrote: »

Yes, it was because of the congestion charge rules. Of course it was.

The vote had little to do with the CG rules, but the rules are indicative of an attitude which may well have contributed to a significant part of the Brexit vote.

Aylesbury_Duck

brianposter wrote: »

The vote had little to do with the CG rules, but the rules are indicative of an attitude which may well have contributed to a significant part of the Brexit vote.

What attitude? It's not unreasonable to expect people to pay the charge relatively quickly on a scheme that's been around for years. How dare London enforce the rules in a timely manner!

So if I travel to say, Sunderland, will the rail operator let me pay for my ticket three days after arrival and the hotel let me pay for my stay three days after I leave?

It really isn't difficult.

steedoc

Aylesbury_Duck wrote: »

You're missing something. The rules are quite clear. 24 hours is perfectly reasonable in the internet age. There's an argument that if the payment window was longer, people would forget. You clearly did.

It is not an outrage.

Hello, you state that this is not an outrage, but it is. Contrary to your assertion, the rules are not perfectly clear.

a) There is no indication of payment time frame on the signs.

and b). There is no precedent in any other area of motoring or life where such payment windows are 24 hrs. This is an arbitrarily short time frame imposed only by TFL

I'm not saying the rules aren't on TFL website - but I can't be expected to have encyclopedic knowledge of every bylaw throughout the land as I drive around. The rules should be expressed on signs, or they should correlate with reasonable assumptions.

jimbo6977

Aylesbury_Duck wrote: »

What attitude? It's not unreasonable to expect people to pay the charge relatively quickly on a scheme that's been around for years. How dare London enforce the rules in a timely manner!

So if I travel to say, Sunderland, will the rail operator let me pay for my ticket three days after arrival and the hotel let me pay for my stay three days after I leave?

It really isn't difficult.

Apples and oranges.

The rail operator has a ticket machine at most stations and on board every train.

The hotel has a cash desk at the reception.

The congestion charge is more analogous to the situation where you get both on and off a train at 2 unmanned stations and the guard hid in the rear cab for the entire journey. In which case you wouldn't pay a thing.

steedoc

Aylesbury_Duck wrote: »

What attitude? It's not unreasonable to expect people to pay the charge relatively quickly on a scheme that's been around for years. How dare London enforce the rules in a timely manner!

So if I travel to say, Sunderland, will the rail operator let me pay for my ticket three days after arrival and the hotel let me pay for my stay three days after I leave?

It really isn't difficult.

I agree, it's not unreasonable to ask people to pay in a timely manner, but you can't expect first time users of the system to know they have only 24 hours to make a payment. Especially when there is nothing indicating this on the signs.

Of course, if you are planning a trip to London it would be sensible to check out the rules, but maybe the trip is unplanned or you enter the Congestion Zone by mistake, and in that case it the rules should be obvious, and the rules should make sense.

It is TFL who has the burden of responsibility when imposing power over motorists who have PAID THEIR ROAD TAX, and who are free citizens of this country, to make sure the rules are displayed and they are reasonable.

Why does a 24hr timeframe seem inherently reasonable to you? Why not make it 12 hours? Or 6 hrs? The fact is, there is no precedent for a use now, pay later system like this.

And this is just daylight robbery for naive people who live in the provinces. It's state sanctioned highway robbery.