Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

kabayiri

Thrugelmir wrote: »

How does that differ to post war economic policy. Governments can only influence direction. Not control it. Major corporations carry serious lobbying weight with politicians. Up to individual people to respond accordingly. If people care more about the price of something than protecting UK industry. Then little will change.

Yep.

If people want to be led by the nose, like sheeple, by the global tech giants, then they can't complain about the direction in which they are led.

The mantra : globalism is great; all upside and no downside.

Perhaps the biggest lie of them all.

kabayiri

andrewf75 wrote: »

I hope you are proved right, but the trouble with Brexit is the lack of any co-ordinated vision and the vast majority of support for it is backward rather than forward looking
...

What was the coordinated vision for the UK inside the EU?

I know the massive increase in people working here bit; we can all see that.

But where was the vision for housing and infrastructure on a planned basis?

All I can see around here is a panic about school places, and road upgrades which are at least 5 years too late.

Some coordination.

MobileSaver

movilogo wrote: »

Historically, status quo seldom introduced good things.

Just keep this in mind when you oppose Brexit (or anything that challenges status quo).

Seldom introduced good things apart from prosperity, record employment, the most inward foreign investment of any country in Europe, a thriving democracy and a place that is so attractive that people in their hundreds of thousands want to move here every year from all over the world? (to quote one of the vocal Brexiteers on here.)

It seems to me that we've been doing pretty well with the status quo of 40 years of being in the EU...

SouthLondonUser

kabayiri wrote: »

What was the coordinated vision for the UK inside the EU?

I know the massive increase in people working here bit; we can all see that.

But where was the vision for housing and infrastructure on a planned basis?

All I can see around here is a panic about school places,

The narrative of too many immigrants causing too much pressure on our public services, which in turn would have been a driver of the Brexit vote, is too simplistic and, in many cases, false.

It is useful to remember that London had one of the highest immigration in the country, yet voted Remain.

Cornwall, a beautiful but economically deprived area, with a huge % of white, British-born, Christian residents, voted to Leave. Oh, and Cornwall did benefit massively from all kinds of EU aid.

How do you explain this contrast?

kabayiri wrote: »

and road upgrades which are at least 5 years too late.
Some coordination.

I'm not following. Are delays in road upgrades the EU's fault?

movilogo

It seems to me that we've been doing pretty well with the status quo of 40 years of being in the EU...

This is a good reading.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_the_United_Kingdom

Thrugelmir

MobileSaver wrote: »

It seems to me that we've been doing pretty well with the status quo of 40 years of being in the EU...

No mention I note of culture, violence, lack of policing, NHS, GP's etc etc...........

These are things that matter to people who were born here. .

SouthLondonUser

All things which are notoriously the fault of the EU, and which will clearly be magically solved overnight once we leave, right?


Care to elaborate on what the alleged connection between the EU and culture, violence, NHS etc would be?

Enterprise_1701C

"Alleged" connection :rotfl::rotfl:

So the fact that there was mass sexual assaults all over Germany New Years 2015/2016 by the immigrants they let in is nothing to do with the eu? The fact that Germany want all eu countries to "take their share of immigrants" after they invited them in, on their own, with no reference to the rest of the eu, is that not a problem? Some of those immigrants are quite possibly trying to get here, and the French are doing as little as they can get away with to stop them.

Locally we have a massive amount of Eastern Europeans, they have their own shops, they also expect to find their own products in our shops, that is not a problem. But they have actually prevented our own Lidl from having those "forecourt sales" they used to have because they came in massive numbers and took everything people had picked up, put it in their cars and went, they did not pay. Even before these massive numbers turned up I was actually looking at something in one of those sales and someone that sounded Polish came along and took it out of my hands. They used to be nice people that bothered to learn English and were polite, it seems almost as if the sheer numbers of them have turned them into rude, inconsiderate people.

We have foreign "travellers" around here too, I say foreign because I cannot identify the language they use. Whenever they are moved on they should "racial prejudice" as if it has nothing to do with the spike in thefts that seems to follow them around. One time when they were local a heavy iron grill disappeared from a drain by our garages, it is a very dark area and someone could have been seriously injured.

The simple weight of numbers affects our culture, of course it does, as it does with any immigrants, but that is the intention of the eu. They want everyone to move around so that eventually you cannot identify your own country (we are pretty close to that already), that way they can argue that the us of e might as well be one country.

And, although I know this is a British thing, the cost of translation services for any immigrants that come here and can't be bothered to learn English is a massive weight on the shoulders of the NHS, and a lot of other services. At least once we are out we can require people to learn English before they come here. We should make them pay for the translation services, but doubtless one of them forced to do so would go to court to say we would have to pay them back the money they spent, and that it would be against their human rights to force them to learn the language of the country they live in.

Oh, and what about the Eastern Europeans (at least a couple of Polish registered cars locally) that take their cars home just often enough to avoid having to register their cars here. I have no idea about what this avoids, but I'm pretty sure the lack of tax paid on those cars alone must be a fair bit, and it has to make traceability harder, therefore I would imagine a few of them use it to avoid insuring the car, as for the MOT, well, I very much doubt that they have one. If they wanted to follow the rules in this country they would register the cars in this country.

MobileSaver

Thrugelmir wrote: »

No mention I note of culture, violence, lack of policing, NHS, GP's etc.

No, not mentioned as they have little to do with us being a part of the EU.

Or, as noted by SouthLondonUser, are you suggesting that as soon as we leave:

• Violent crimes will drop by say 50%?
• There'll be an extra 20,000 police officers recruited?
• NHS waiting times will be a thing of the past?
• Everyone will be able to see their GP on spec?

Thrugelmir wrote: »

These are things that matter to people who were born here. .

Prosperity, having a job and democracy don't matter to people born here?!?!

Actually for many Brexiteers I think that's accurate; they don't care about being worse off so long as they can get rid of those pesky Johnny Foreigners...

andrewf75

kabayiri wrote: »

What was the coordinated vision for the UK inside the EU?

I know the massive increase in people working here bit; we can all see that.

But where was the vision for housing and infrastructure on a planned basis?

All I can see around here is a panic about school places, and road upgrades which are at least 5 years too late.

Some coordination.

There wasn't any I agree, we lack one as a country but not because of our EU membership because of our free market approach. Plenty of EU countries have a co-ordinated vision for infrastructure, housing etc. Yes I get the theory that Brexit is an opportunity to do things differently, but listen to the Tories with their "global Britain" agenda. They have no intention of doing things differently, just doing more of the same with less regulation. The EU was in some ways holding us back from being even more subservient to big business.

All of the issues leading to Brexit are basically domestic ones and there is now less chance of solving them with a divided nation.