Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Tromking

phillw wrote: »

No, it won't. Depending on the business they will either outsource to other countries, or hire illegal workers. Some will be able to pay people less, because they know their employees can't just up and leave for another EU country.

All the things we've given up to give you the chance to force people to do things won't happen.

But still a worse deal than staying in the EU. On all counts, with no exceptions. It just eases the people who are paranoid about foreigners controlling them. I think a lot of leavers will be upset about foreigners fishing in the water we claim belongs to us, but like all land/sea is just stolen from nature.

The vast majority of U.K. firms do not trade with the EU, ergo they only exist to service to U.K. consumers, they ain’t going anywhere.
The U.K. needs to wean itself off mass migration as the alternative to a smaller, better paid and a more productive workforce.
Employing many more workers than we need on part time hours and thus accessing in work benefits as a result, has to end.

Moe_The_Bartender

goral wrote: »

To yours post #7615
But you even don't remember what you just write?
I give you figures, where is yours?
You write something you can't prove
just what you write about probably came out in a local pub.

'And your conclusions are?' seems to be a very fair question and I was wondering that too. Exactly what is your point?

Tromking

goral wrote: »

To yours post #7615
But you even don't remember what you just write?
I give you figures, where is yours?
You write something you can't prove
just what you write about probably came out in a local pub.

You’ve cut and paste some figures, which say what? I’m not being confrontational, I’m merely curious.
I’ve written something which I know to be true, you disgree.
Back up your view by saying why I’m wrong and perhaps come up with an alternative figure.
The onus is on you I’m afraid.

Getting_greyer

adindas wrote: »

Did people notice here that Getting greyer profile was created on January 2020.

Few old posters here have created a new profile to hide their previous scaremongering views on brexit which has been proven to be untrue day by day. They are to ashamed to acknowledge that they got it wrong.

Did people notice Adindas talks absolute !!!!!!!!? I will not explain myself to you, thinking Brexit weakens the country is not scaremongering, I definitely unashamed about that.

The thing I'm ashamed about is giving you the time of day. I'm sure you're very nice in person but the way you speak to some people on this thread is disgusting. And you do it because of someone view on UK relationship with EU. As I've said before, I hope I'm wrong, only time will tell, not someone chatting !!!! on forum.

Getting_greyer

adindas wrote: »

Did people notice here that Getting greyer profile was created on January 2020.

Few old posters here have created a new profile to hide their previous scaremongering views on brexit which has been proven to be untrue day by day. They are to ashamed to acknowledge that they got it wrong.

Tromking wrote: »

Wow, the mental gymnastics some people go through in their desperation to propagate the myth that the U.K. does not regain any worthwhile form of autonomy post Brexit.
On the issue of fishing, if the U.K. decides as part of a FTA negotiation to issue fishing rights to EU boats in return for concessions elsewhere, it’s not ceding sovereignty, it’s using its new found Sovereignty to leverage a better deal for the UK.
Basic stuff this.

You make a fair point but I think you miss the point I make on sovereignty being a net sum gain. We will now have full authority over our waters so GOOD, but we lose access to other things so BAD.

If we cede some authority of our waters (you see this as leverage I see it as something not too dissimilar from the CFP) it's a little bad but we gain access elsewhere so a little good so cancels out. That sums up being an EU member some things you dint like in return for stuff you do.

Now I know as non eu state we could stop access to waters whenever we wish however in practice that would mean we lose out elsewhere. I must not have explained myself properly in that post and probably in this one either but happy to discuss further if wanted.

Herzlos

Tromking wrote: »

The vast majority of U.K. firms do not trade with the EU, ergo they only exist to service to U.K. consumers, they ain’t going anywhere.

Yeah, most are hairdresses, takeaways, plumbers and such. How many of them use stuff from the EU even if they don't trade directly?
I can't think of many trades which don't involve any kind of consumables.



You seem to be implying that any business which doesn't buy/sell directly with the EU will be unaffected, nor that they might be affected by having less customers (because EU nationals also buy things like food) or customers having less money (because the economy weakens).

The U.K. needs to wean itself off mass migration as the alternative to a smaller, better paid and a more productive workforce.

Mass immigration isn't the problem there, though. They contribute more, work hard and generate work.
Maybe if we get away with this notion that a staff member needs to be sat at a desk for 50+ hours a week to be productive, we could have employees that are less frazzled, happier and healthier.

Employing many more workers than we need on part time hours and thus accessing in work benefits as a result, has to end.

What's that got to do with immigration? Hiring 2x 16 hour staff instead of 1x32 hour staff is down to saving employeers on tax. Hiring 16x 0-hours staff on 2 hours a week provides a lot more flexibility that hiring 1x32-hour staff member.



When we're leaving the EU and being led by a Government that's keen to reduce "red tape" to make business more competitive, we're going to end up with employees with poorer conditions and less rights (because what do you think "red tape" means?)

Herzlos

Tromking wrote: »

W
On the issue of fishing, if the U.K. decides as part of a FTA negotiation to issue fishing rights to EU boats in return for concessions elsewhere

it’s using its new found Sovereignty to leverage a better deal for the UK.

Isn't the end result for the fishermen and fish buyers the same? We concede some fishing rights in order to get something else?


The underlying point isn't the end state, but that the negotiations are between the UK and EU as equals where the UK can unilaterally withdraw from the agreement, rather than the UK being a member of the EU and needing EU approval to withdraw from the agreement (without resorting to leaving the EU entirely)?


So it doesn't actually matter if we're worse off because of it, as long as we are the ones agreeing to it?

phillw

Tromking wrote: »

The vast majority of U.K. firms do not trade with the EU, ergo they only exist to service to U.K. consumers, they ain’t going anywhere.

You appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of outsourcing & international trade.

Tromking wrote: »

The U.K. needs to wean itself off mass migration as the alternative to a smaller, better paid and a more productive workforce.

You might want it to, that doesn't mean it needs to or will. With a weaker economy post brexit then it will likely be a smaller, lower paid workforce. Productivity is mainly hampered by bosses & they aren't going to change.

Moe_The_Bartender

phillw wrote: »

With a weaker economy post brexit then it will likely be a smaller, lower paid workforce.

The IMF consider that the UK's economy will grow faster than that of the EU post Brexit. Will you bitter remainers never give up with your doomsaying?

Herzlos

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

The IMF consider that the UK's economy will grow faster than that of the EU post Brexit. Will you bitter remainers never give up with your doomsaying?

Yet you (Brexiteers, at least) said the IMF was unreliable when they said Brexit would hurt the UK?


You're also talking about a (from memory) 0.1 percentage point difference here? Noise.


You're also comparing apples and yachts here. You should be comparing how the UK is doing outside the EU Vs what it'd be doing inside the EU, rather than comparing it to the EU.