Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

gfplux

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

Where is trade mentioned in there? Did I miss something?

Sorry Moe, you are quite correct. You at least had enough interest to click the link.
My bad. There were so so many presentations by Michelle Barnier that I posted the wrong one.
This is the one about future trade.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/publications/slides-internal-eu27-preparatory-discussions-future-relationship-free-trade-agreement_en

This is a link to ALL the publications. So if anyone on this thread has an area of particular interest or expertise they can read up about the EU’s preparation.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/publications_en

adindas

Herzlos wrote: »

Because if you chase out all of the skilled professionals, who's going to pay for all the infrastructure?

If I leave, I'll take my job with me, and all my tax will go to whichever host country I go to. I won't be leaving a role for someone else to take. It'll be a net loss to the UK. Enough to affect anyone on my own? Nah. But how many of us leaving before you suddenly stop having enough money to pay pensions, or to keep hospitals open and so on?

This is actually a good reason to leave the EU.

When the UK is leaving the EU the UK could choose who they want, who they do not want.

The New system will work much better as it will step up the competition to the highest global level rather than prioritising to the EU. What about people from outside the EU such as Australia, US, China, Canada, Russia, other most competitive Asian countries like India, China, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc.

Just see how the US has managed to attract the most competitive, the richest people on earth, CEOs, scientists. Many of them are not born in the US. Just few to name :

Richest people on earth: Sergey Brin, Thomas Peterffy, Igor Krutoy, Elon Musk, Rupert Murdoch, Roman Abramovich,

CEO: Sundar Pichai, Inge Thulin, Indra Nooyi, Stanley Bergman

Scientist: Abhijit Banerjee, Esther Duflo, Tim Berner Lee, M. Stanley Whittingham.

With European free movement you get all types of people the best, the good and the ugly. With EU free movement you also get Romanian/Bulgarian Gypsies, you get those who are abusing the benefit system, you get those who can not compete in their own countries. As they are not competitive enough they will just be working for a few years and then later they will depend on benefit for the rest of their life.

Similarly to single market, as EU single market is a very protective market. No Noble prize winner in economics will ever in favour of the protective Market.

triathlon

Herzlos wrote: »

I'm going to wait and see what damage you do to my country first and what we do about it. I'm pretty certain once you realise how bad it'll be you'll want back in and this will just have been a bad dream. I've got deepish roots here so would rather stay and for us all to prosper.

I can afford to wait because I'm well enough off to weather it and I'm in a job that wont be affected (beyond the extra hassle of interacting with europe). I might even be able to get a bigger house out of it. If the downturn is sustained and my family starts to suffer I'll be one of the many higher rate tax payersp heading back into the EU.

I know you dont like foreigners being here but I thought you'd appreciate their tax payments.

I was pretty certain, but now I know for sure which poster you are on the Brexit thread on HPC

borntobefree

Herzlos wrote: »

I accept we're leaving, whatever that means. It was a bad idea then and a worse idea now and from all of the polling it's not supported by the people, but that's democracy I guess.

Not supported by the people - how do you reach that conclusion? Everyone could have voted Lib Dem - indeed I campaigned for them til my feet bled - but people voted Tory “to get Brexit done” .

So I don’t think you have accepted the vote....

As a Remainer I think you are wrong that Brexit is a bad idea. It’s just a different idea. There is no “right way” for a country to organise itself. It can be part of a Federal Europe or it can stand alone. They are different but neither is “right”.

Is Switzerland wrong? Is Norway wrong ? No they are just different.

Herzlos

adindas wrote: »

This is actually a good reason to leave the EU.

When the UK is leaving the EU the UK could choose who they want, who they do not want.

We can do that now and already reject foreign qualified staff the government needs because of stupid quotas. If we become economically worse off and the GBP stays low, we're less attractive to workers from anywhere else in the world.


So sure, if we leave we can apply the same rules to EU and non-EU citizens, driving up the cost of hiring for everyone and enforcing pointless quotas for political reasons (can you imagine the outrage for the Tories if we leave and immigration goes UP?

triathlon wrote: »

I was pretty certain, but now I know for sure which poster you are on the Brexit thread on HPC

I'm pretty certain you're wrong

borntobefree wrote: »

Not supported by the people - how do you reach that conclusion? Everyone could have voted Lib Dem - indeed I campaigned for them til my feet bled - but people voted Tory “to get Brexit done” .

People also voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. This is the problem with the 3 proxy referendums we've had already, they don't give us a clear idea. A direct referendum would solve it.
Polling pretty much since the start has shown the trend moving away from leaving.

So I don’t think you have accepted the vote....

I do. Leave won by a tiny margin and a huge amount of deceit, but democracy doesn't stop there.

As a Remainer I think you are wrong that Brexit is a bad idea. It’s just a different idea.

Can you give me any examples as to why it's a good idea?
There's plenty of bad - we're losing an awful lot with Brexit.

Is Switzerland wrong? Is Norway wrong ? No they are just different.

Neither of those are Brexit. I'd be happy with Switzerland or Norway, or any coherent plan by someone who's stance isn't "f business".

borntobefree

Herloz it’s pointless arguing with you. To be honest I feel very sorry for you. I love my country. It must be sad not to have that.

For you a country just seems to be a place where you can plonk yourself to make money. For you, Britain is little more than a business park. Sad.

Moe_The_Bartender

Herzlos wrote: »

Sorry, lost in the noise.

I'm sure uk Gov was overruled on a couple of things regarding treatment of the disabled but dont have references yet. There is the case against the snoopers charter.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/ten-rulings-european-court-justice-affected-everyday-life-521234
.

That really doesn’t support your statement about excesses of the UK parliament. Given your reference to treatment of the disabled, it would appear that you are confusing the ECJ and the ECHR, the latter of which is nothing to do with the EU. If you find any links, please post them.

adindas

Herzlos wrote: »

We can do that now and already reject foreign qualified staff the government needs because of stupid quotas. If we become economically worse off and the GBP stays low, we're less attractive to workers from anywhere else in the world.

.

You deliberately remove other part:
The current system is prioritising the EU upon other the most competitive nations.

The New system will work much better as it will step up the competition to the highest global level rather than prioritising to the EU. What about people from outside the EU such as Australia, US, China, Canada, Russia, other most competitive Asian countries like India, China, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc.

In the new System the EU people will need to compete like anyone else outside the UK. The UK government could choose who they want and who they do not want.

Mind to explain how could you prevent Romanian/Bulgarian Gypsies coming to the UK ??

Those who are not competitive enough just working to make ends meet doing menial job, after a few years they qualify for the benefit, they will just relying on the benefit. Is it not better this job to be filled by international students who are paying a lot of of money to the UK Universities ?. That is the way Australia and /or US is attracting the most competitive people to come to the country.

Those who are not competitive enough are more likely to depend on the benefit after a few years doing menial jobs as they are not competitive enough to compete in a job which will be paying higher taxation.

Getting_greyer

borntobefree wrote: »

Herloz it’s pointless arguing with you. To be honest I feel very sorry for you. I love my country. It must be sad not to have that.

For you a country just seems to be a place where you can plonk yourself to make money. For you, Britain is little more than a business park. Sad.

Think this is a poor take tbh. He's concerned that brexit will have negative consequences for the UK. I suspect it's likely that he rejects the ingrained nationalism that expects us to love our country no matter what. But you can still be proud of things your country has done, and also show concern when you think it's wrong. Patriotism and symbolism sometimes blinds us to wrong doings.

End of the day, people will emigrate to seek advantages or when they feel the social contract between state and people is broken. A country is really just a landmass with certain rules within a mostly socially constructed border. Who cares if someone doesn't feel amorous about that anyway.

adindas

Herzlos wrote: »

People also voted Tory to keep Corbyn out.

One of the major reason people voted conservative is to "Get Brexit Done" and to prevent the second referendum, which was proposed by some LibDem and Labour. Just look at how the traditional labour seats have been lost to conservative.

It seems to me you pretend to be blind. So I posted the conservative slogan which was also written in manifesto during the conservative party campaign.



Remember it is not Corbyn Idea to push for the second referendum. It is his shadow ministers mainly Keir Starmer.