Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

fatbeetle

https://www.ft.com/content/a4ce3948-0b87-11ea-bb52-34c8d9dc6d84

Brussels has warned France and Italy that they are running stubbornly high levels of public debt, meaning their future budgets risk breaching EU rules and alarming investors.

The European Commission on Wednesday published its opinion on the 2020 draft spending plans of all eurozone member states. It had harsh words for Paris, Rome and Madrid which, it said, had failed to make use of good economic times to chip away at their debt burdens.!

Valdis Dombrovskis, commission vice-president in charge of the euro, said France, Italy and Spain — as well as Belgium — were “not expected” to meet the EU’s debt reduction targets for next year.!

“In 2020, they plan either no meaningful fiscal adjustment or even a fiscal expansion,” said Mr Dombrovskis. “This is worrying because very high debt levels limit the capacity to respond to economic shocks and market pressures.”

Going down the tubes slowly

phillw

Sailtheworld wrote: »

Of course the creation of food banks will create a demand but it's a Tory fantasy to think they're mainly serving people who rock up in a flash car pick up some free food and then go home and get drunk whilst watching Sky on a 80" TV.

Where does this Worldview come from?

That is just a typical far right attitude towards people. They pretend that nobody is deserving because it makes it easier for them to deny helping everyone that needs it.

Zero_Gravitas

Brexit - the gift that keeps on giving:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50419130

“Countries including Australia have asked for trade compensation from the UK and the EU over Brexit disruption.

Fifteen countries, including the US, India and New Zealand, have been setting out Brexit concerns at a World Trade Organization (WTO) meeting in Geneva.”

Cue leavers claiming this is what they voted for all along...

Thrugelmir

phillw wrote: »

That is just a typical far right attitude towards people. They pretend that nobody is deserving because it makes it easier for them to deny helping everyone that needs it.

2.3 billion people on this planet still don't have access to adequate sanitation. Some 12% of the world's population are undernourished. We all need to start appreciating how lucky we are. Rather than simply making poltical points for self satisfaction.

Herzlos

Thrugelmir wrote: »

2.3 billion people on this planet still don't have access to adequate sanitation. Some 12% of the world's population are undernourished. We all need to start appreciating how lucky we are. Rather than simply making poltical points for self satisfaction.

Or we could help all of them instead of trying to disregard their views. "You cant be upset that you can't afford to feed your kids over a school holiday, and need to live in a damp flat with leaky windows, because there are starving kids in Africa" just doesn't work. Society is more than capable of keeping everyone fed and cared for, if the rich and powerful weren't so greedy.

Moby

Sailtheworld wrote: »

Shouldn't the comparison be the UK that voted to leave the EU vs the one that didn't?

The trouble is you're comparing apples with pears. Not a problem for you because you're a 'if the sun rises then brexit is a success' kind of guy.

Germany and Italy aren't trying to leave the EU because they don't want to be worse off than they otherwise would have been either.

Surely we're past the idea that brexit is going to be good for the economy - it's just not credible.

Brexit is a process not an event and that has been the biggest problem for all concerned because the tories have turned it into an issue of betrayal. The question of Brexit has been reduced to...... 'why can’t we just leave after all we voted for it'...... The complexity of the issue is even now still ignored and was never exposed during the referendum.

I am not sure that people that want to leave are that interested in the detail of what leave would mean and in the end I suspect that is the problem for remain campaigners. Leave campaigners just ignore or just pay lip service to the issue of what leave looks like.

For leavers it's no longer about whether Brexit is or was a good idea..... it is now all about... we voted for it so we should have it. In one sense I suspect a large proportion of leavers do not really care what ‘it’ is. Johnson appeals to them because he meets them on that base level with his statement...'Get brexit done' and puts nothing in his manifesto that will deflect from that.
The tories are keeping it simple....banging on about betrayal and that presses the buttons of enough people to see them through a divided opposition.

Of course the problems will start for Johnson when people realise he is lying to them....Brexit will not be done in January 2020; there is no possibility of a trade agreement with the EU by the end of December 2020. Remember in relation to the new trade deal we will be negotiating with 27 other countries, all with their own agendas in relation to fishing rights etc etc.. How long will people give him the benefit of the doubt and how long will it take for people to realise he is not up to the task?

gfplux

Moby wrote: »

Brexit is a process not an event and that has been the biggest problem for all concerned because the tories have turned it into an issue of betrayal. The question of Brexit has been reduced to...... 'why can’t we just leave after all we voted for it'...... The complexity of the issue is even now still ignored and was never exposed during the referendum.

I am not sure that people that want to leave are that interested in the detail of what leave would mean and in the end I suspect that is the problem for remain campaigners. Leave campaigners just ignore or just pay lip service to the issue of what leave looks like.

For leavers it's no longer about whether Brexit is or was a good idea..... it is now all about... we voted for it so we should have it. In one sense I suspect a large proportion of leavers do not really care what ‘it’ is. Johnson appeals to them because he meets them on that base level with his statement...'Get brexit done' and puts nothing in his manifesto that will deflect from that.
The tories are keeping it simple....banging on about betrayal and that presses the buttons of enough people to see them through a divided opposition.

Of course the problems will start for Johnson when people realise he is lying to them....Brexit will not be done in January 2020; there is no possibility of a trade agreement with the EU by the end of December 2020. Remember in relation to the new trade deal we will be negotiating with 27 other countries, all with their own agendas in relation to fishing rights etc etc.. How long will people give him the benefit of the doubt and how long will it take for people to realise he is not up to the task?

I agree with your general premise however I don’t agree with your last paragraph.
Johnson is not up to the task, A proper trade deal will not be agreed and signed by the end of December 2020
There may well be an extension to the transition period.
However there will be no come uppance for Johnson.
He may well deserve it but in this new world he will not be called to account by the British Public.
Under “normal” circumstances the next General Election will be in 2024 and by then his success or failure will not matter.

Takedap

Moby wrote: »

I am not sure that people that want to leave are that interested in the detail of what leave would mean and in the end I suspect that is the problem for remain campaigners. Leave campaigners just ignore or just pay lip service to the issue of what leave looks like.

I'm absolutely certain that most Leave voters don't care how we leave.


I'm also absolutely sure that most of them didn't care about Europe at all* prior to the referendum when someone somehow convinced them that it was a matter of life & death.


It's a 40 year old in-house spat from the Tory party that has split the country from top to bottom.


*Unless their football team was playing there.

Thrugelmir

Takedap wrote: »

I'm also absolutely sure that most of them didn't care about Europe at all* prior to the referendum

They care about the UK though.

Dee_Best

Takedap wrote: »

I'm absolutely certain that most Leave voters don't care how we leave.

That is the result of Remainers decrying every possibility, threatening Armageddon and - the most influential in reaching that result - denying Brexit at every opportunity so that over three years later when we should have left long ago we're still in.

Takedap wrote: »

I'm also absolutely sure that most of them didn't care about Europe at all* prior to the referendum when someone somehow convinced them that it was a matter of life & death.

Some fella called Osborne convinced them by threatening war if we dared leave, so blame him for that one if that's really what you believe.
(The EU & Europe are two different entities BTW. In case you don't quite understand a quick web search might help clarify for you.)

Takedap wrote: »

It's a 40 year old in-house spat from the Tory party that has split the country from top to bottom.

Of course it is.
It was nothing at all to do with a fella this time called Farage and a party called UKIP that up-ended British politics with their popularity because they wanted Britain out of the EU.
Oh hang on - that rise in popularity was in 2013 & 2014, before the referendum when according to you nobody cared about the EU.


And of course the other parties had no say in agreeing to the referendum (even though MP's voted by 544 to 53 in favour of the referendum in June 2015).
Much though you obviously hate the Tories, they alone did not just let the referendum take place.

Never mind.
In a few weeks time you will see with more clarity which way the country is heading.
I have a strange feeling that you won't like that very much either.