Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Zuzel

Sailtheworld wrote: »

Of course the fact that these are treasonous remainers has nothing to do with it. It would suit you no end if they took no further part in parliamentary proceedings. Not that there's currently a parliament able to proceed with much at all.

I can't wait until brexit is out of the way on the off chance this sort of bile stays on the Daily Mail comments pages where it belongs.

There was IMHO nothing bilious in BikingBud's post.
By far the most numerous bilious comments here come from the pro-EU contingent many of whom, like you did in that post, try to say what has not been actually said using bilious language like "treasonous".

Whether you like it or not there is a big possibility that the rules surrounding this will change given the recent state of affairs.

If any MP changes party, resigns or otherwise ceases to represent the political party under whose flag they were elected then yes there should be a law banning these persons from participating in further parliamentary proceedings unless reinstated as an MP.
There should immediately be a by-election to decide the MP.
This should apply universally.

It has nothing to do with Brexit or otherwise; this has been suggested in my memory even as far back as the formation of the SDP when Roy Jenkins & co quit Labour.
Views can change it's true; 180 degrees? Well possibly.
What hasn't changed is the opinion of the electorate who elect that changed MP unless there is a new election which decides the matter.

Sailtheworld

Zuzel wrote: »

There was IMHO nothing bilious in BikingBud's post.
By far the most numerous bilious comments here come from the pro-EU contingent many of whom, like you did in that post, try to say what has not been actually said using bilious language like "treasonous".

When we get to pantomime season I might indulge you

Zuzel wrote: »

Whether you like it or not there is a big possibility that the rules surrounding this will change given the recent state of affairs.

If any MP changes party, resigns or otherwise ceases to represent the political party under whose flag they were elected then yes there should be a law banning these persons from participating in further parliamentary proceedings unless reinstated as an MP.
There should immediately be a by-election to decide the MP.
This should apply universally.

It has nothing to do with Brexit or otherwise; this has been suggested in my memory even as far back as the formation of the SDP when Roy Jenkins & co quit Labour.
Views can change it's true; 180 degrees? Well possibly.
What hasn't changed is the opinion of the electorate who elect that changed MP unless there is a new election which decides the matter.

Gets my vote Zuzel. It's not the principle I have a problem with it's the fact that you and Bud probably haven't given it a second thought for decades but now, all of a sudden, have a strong opinion.

I'm probably being over cynical but I suspect if a few MPs had walked in the other direction you wouldn't be using it to test your memory bank.

BikingBud

Sailtheworld wrote: »

Of course the fact that these are treasonous remainers has nothing to do with it. It would suit you no end if they took no further part in parliamentary proceedings. Not that there's currently a parliament able to proceed with much at all.

I can't wait until brexit is out of the way on the off chance this sort of bile stays on the Daily Mail comments pages where it belongs.

I said nothing about treason nor remaining. Stop adding your vile ill perceived assumptions to my straightforward observation.

I made comments back in mid May, that's probably before you brought your own bandwagon and its skewed perspective to this party, about the overall incompetence of our elected representatives so this is not new and is not directly about Brexit. What it is about is misleading the electorate.

There were numerous reasons stated for those that left labour. Overall 73 MPs now do not represent the party that they were elected to in the 2017 GE.

Is that good politics for the man in the street?

Brexit will be what it will be. Petty mind squabbles on here from people that believe the world is going to end because we are going to fall off the edge of the flat earth will not change that outcome.

My overall concern is the complete and utter waste of: time, effort, resources and energy and the potential damage to the reputation of the UK by the self serving egotists we call MPs.

Overhaul the whole system. Reduce Parliament to 250 members. Introduce a new voting system rather than FPTP and lets start again.

BikingBud

Sailtheworld wrote: »

Of course the fact that these are treasonous remainers has nothing to do with it. It would suit you no end if they took no further part in parliamentary proceedings. Not that there's currently a parliament able to proceed with much at all.

I can't wait until brexit is out of the way on the off chance this sort of bile stays on the Daily Mail comments pages where it belongs.

Of course we could try to look at it from your skewed perspective and think ourselves lucky that some MPs wish to remain in the EU so much that they will do anything despite what the public voted for and that they are willing to defer or even prevent the "apocalypse".

But what is you feeling about MPs that turn their backs on the voting public?

And one must bear in mind that MPs are from us and should represent us. They are neither cleverer nor more gifted than the electorate but they are immensely privileged.

Anything about biting the hand that feeds or something even more fundamental such as trust and respect?

I do not have them down as altruistic do you?

Moby

BikingBud wrote: »

Of course we could try to look at it from your skewed perspective and think ourselves lucky that some MPs wish to remain in the EU so much that they will do anything despite what the public voted for and that they are willing to defer or even prevent the "apocalypse".

But what is you feeling about MPs that turn their backs on the voting public?

And one must bear in mind that MPs are from us and should represent us. They are neither cleverer nor more gifted than the electorate but they are immensely privileged.

Anything about biting the hand that feeds or something even more fundamental such as trust and respect?

I do not have them down as altruistic do you?

Recall of MP'S Act. I think it's been used twice in recent months!

Sailtheworld

BikingBud wrote: »

But what is you feeling about MPs that turn their backs on the voting public?

They're horrid bounders?

You could complain if you're that bothered https://www.parliament.uk/documents/pcfs/current-inquiries/Complaining%20about%20an%20MP%20Mar13.pdf

Zero_Gravitas

This is brilliant - the liar Boris Johnson being told why his Hulk analogy is nonsense by the actual Hulk:


https://twitter.com/MarkRuffalo/status/1173273612075376641/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1173273612075376641&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fnewsbeat-49712427

BikingBud

Moby wrote: »

Recall of MP'S Act. I think it's been used twice in recent months!

All a little weak really, requires 10% of the constituents to sign and only after certain criteria:

Instead, proceedings are initiated only if an MP is found guilty of a wrongdoing that fulfils certain criteria.

Section 1 sets out the circumstances in which the Speaker of the House of Commons would trigger the recall process, namely:

A custodial prison sentence of a year or less—longer sentences automatically disqualify MPs without need for a petition;
Suspension from the House of least 10 sitting days or 14 calendar days, following a report by the Committee on Standards;
A conviction for providing false or misleading expenses claims.

Should be automatic upon changing party allegiance.

Sailtheworld

BikingBud wrote: »

Should be automatic upon changing party allegiance.

Very easy to sidestep. An MP could stay a member of one party whilst voting with another.

LHW99

Perhaps the issues are that:
1) MP's are put foreward as a member of a political party whose "line" they are expected to support
2) MP's represent a constituency, and should represent the views of all their constituents in the HoP
3) We have an electoral system whereby MP's who are part of Government in the HoP are there by majority (of constituencies) in the country, even if that is not actually the majority of voters in the UK.


Squaring the circle perhaps.