Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

angrypirate

lisyloo wrote: »

She didnt try proroguing, running down the clock or filibustering to prevent the will of parliament or say she would not follow the legal bills.


I think it's quite a widespread opinion that Boris cannot be trusted.

Boris hasnt prorogued to get no deal through - otherwise Parliament would already be prorogued now until 1st November. This prorguing arguement is a red herring from the remain side as only 4 days of debating have been lost and these are beginning October. Any new deal brought back to the house will be after the 17th as this is when the EU are meeting and would ratify any new deal. And guess what? Parliament are sitting on the 17th October as it stands.

Boris has instructed the Lords not to filibuster in order to try and get JC on side for a GE vote. JC said on Wednesday once the Surrender Bill has been granted royal ascent he will vote for a GE. I expect this will be a lie and change come Monday

Boris has said he wont break the law but he will do what he is legally allowed to do to get Brexit on the 31st October. I dont see anything untrustworthy about that - no deal better than a bad deal was in the tory manifesto last time around.

In fact, Boris has been more honest than JC who, in all honesty, nobody knows what he wants. So far, I understand Labours policy to be that they will negotiate a better deal, then bring it back for a people vote where they will campaign against their deal to remain. What sort of fu**ed up logic is that.

MaxiRobriguez

angrypirate wrote: »

In fact, Boris has been more honest than JC who, in all honesty, nobody knows what he wants. So far, I understand Labours policy to be that they will negotiate a better deal, then bring it back for a people vote where they will campaign against their deal to remain. What sort of fu**ed up logic is that.

Not even Boris' own brother believes him anymore. Anyone who believes that what he is saying and doing isn't complete obfuscation is a moron. Everything the Government has done has been to strategically force a scenario whereby Brexit happens, preferably with a deal after the EU capitulates, but if not - no bother, no deal is OK, with an election immediately before or after, in order to try and secure five more years before the limbo ceases and the impacts of outcome start. The proroguing of parliament with a small window left open was to force a no confidence vote after which a general election would be set for after 31st October. It's see through as a bloody window.

The opposition parties have been more honest. They have acted to prevent a no-deal scenario, which they believe rightly or wrongly isn't acceptable, and will agree to the PM's desire for an election as soon as that cannot be undone by century old convention or what not.

The Thornberry position isn't that dumb either. A Labour Negotiated deal will come with unknown compromises. The net effect of those compromises may or may not mean that the public decides that, all things considered, they'd now prefer to remain. It would make less sense for them to rule out no deal, negotiate a bad deal (which is still better than no-deal) and then force the bad deal through.

This is the same position the likes of Rees-Mogg and Cummings have stated. They too have suggested a second referendum once a negotiated deal has completed, the only difference being they were expecting to second referendum between that deal and no-deal, but the process is the same.

People need to start being less partisan and see things for what they are. The reason were in such a stalemate mess is because both sides which are about 50/50 have become completely entrenched and no will compromise on anything. At some point something snaps and everyone gets an extreme version of something that no one actually wants. We're better than this for gods sake.

phillw

angrypirate wrote: »

Boris hasnt prorogued to get no deal through - otherwise Parliament would already be prorogued now until 1st November.

He did. He thought he'd only left enough space to get the things done he needed, but not for anyone else to get anything else through.

He thought they were too dumb.

He still thinks they are too dumb to see through the deceipt for his GE to force through a no deal brexit. How can you have a GE two days before a summit? We won't likely have a PM to send to the summit.

Boris is so untrustworthy even his brother has abandoned him.

You've bought it hook line and sinker though, so maybe you were the target after all?

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Care to expand on this?

That is what being a member of the single market is worth to our economy. Once we leave then our trading suffers considerably, we're looking like we'll lose a load of farmers for various reasons (no organic exports will be allowed at all as they are uncertified, tariffs on our food exports will mean that farmers won't be able to afford to continue as they will be priced out of the much larger market, with no inward tariffs they can't compete with the rest of the world).

Our EU membership fee is a very very small price to pay for what we get out of it. You'll discount it as project fear, the people giving evidence to the brexit comittee don't seem like they are spreading fear. They are very reasonable experts in their fields who are explaining in detail what will happen in no deal situation.

Farmers are understandably livid, they were promised the same trade as now but with less red tape. Half of them are staring at bankruptcy with the current course of action. Which amounts to a hostage video where they will keep cutting limbs off the UK population until the EU gives in. The only leverage being a constant reminder that half the UK have been convinced to blame the EU for their missing limbs.

Triple_Zero

Incredible, isn't it?

Here we have objectors to Bexit, squealing about the actions in our parliament and of Boris in particular.
Ever since the referendum result these objectors have cried for a referendum re-run because (they say) nobody (oops sorry, only the Brexiters ) knew what they were voting for and they were lied to.
Otherwise we would have voted to remain in the EU.

Well here we are three years down the line, during which time nothing much has happened really.
Mostly because the pro-remain MP's that by far dominate in parliament are doing all they can to keep the country in the EU.
Now that parliament has been given a proverbial kick up the backside by Boris Johnson, at last the electorate can begin to see the sort of person their MP really is and personally I think that a large part of this electorate won't like what they see.
Because when given the chance of a General Election as a proxy referendum to decide the matter, these MP's are so scared that they won't allow that either!
Why?
Because they know that there's a bl@@dy good chance of the result being a tory majority, PLUS therefore of a majority in favour of a no deal Brexit in parliament.

What the conniving bunch don't realise is that AT BEST they are only delaying the inevitable.
Because if Brexit doesn't happen, they're opening the floodgates to a whitewash by the Brexit Party at the next opportunity.

movilogo

What if BoJo simply ignore the No Deal laws and does not seek extension from EU? Then UK will still leave by Oct end - isn't it?


Of course BoJo could be prosecuted for breaking the law but that's a different discussion.

ben501

movilogo wrote: »

What if BoJo simply ignore the No Deal laws and does not seek extension from EU? Then UK will still leave by Oct end - isn't it?

What if he asks and they tell him to get stuffed?


Dithering British don’t deserve another Brexit extension, says France

phillw

Triple_Zero wrote: »

Incredible, isn't it?

It is.

Triple_Zero wrote: »

Now that parliament has been given a proverbial kick up the backside by Boris Johnson, at last the electorate can begin to see the sort of person their MP really is and personally I think that a large part of this electorate won't like what they see.

I don't, my MP supported Boris Johnson.

Triple_Zero wrote: »

Because when given the chance of a General Election as a proxy referendum to decide the matter, these MP's are so scared that they won't allow that either!

If the election is a proxy referendum then we already had one of those and remain won, which saved us from Boris.

If you want a referendum, have a referendum. You won't agree to it because you're petrified of the result.

Triple_Zero wrote: »

Because they know that there's a bl@@dy good chance of the result being a tory majority, PLUS therefore of a majority in favour of a no deal Brexit in parliament.

No, it's because to call an election you dissolve parliament & so there will be no more negotiating (that is the priority right?). We then don't know when a new government would be formed after the election. It could be a week or two, or maybe another election.

Triple_Zero wrote: »

Because if Brexit doesn't happen, they're opening the floodgates to a whitewash by the Brexit Party at the next opportunity.

Enough of the project fear. If it DOES happen then you can expect a whitewash by anyone promising EU membership at the next opportunity.

MaxiRobriguez

If the opposition parties call for an election in November after the anti no-deal bill comes into fruition, are they still chicken?

lvader

MaxiRobriguez wrote: »

If the opposition parties call for an election in November after the anti no-deal bill comes into fruition, are they still chicken?

The bill doesn't stop no deal. What happens if they stopped a GE and we crash out of the EU?

movilogo

EU will always grant extension. They can do it indefinitely to prevent UK from leaving.