Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

qwert_yuiop

Forging ahead. How exactly?

phillw

Spy_Key wrote: »

Judging by the actions of remainers, they (remainers) don't care.
They can't do because everything they are doing and everything they have done points towards those "just-about-managing" losing more and more because of the actions of these remainers.
If we had left March 29th as originally decided we would already be moving forward.

You sound like someone being restrained at the top of the cliff begging to be let to jump over it, claiming that your situation will improve if only those pesky people stop holding you back.

adindas wrote: »

[FONT=&quot]What sort of organisations negotiate as such using threat, bullying to get what they want??[/FONT]

British Government. The EU are only following the law that was written by those appointed by democratically elected national governments of the 28 member states and passed by democratically elected MEPs of the 28 member states.

Herzlos

buglawton wrote: »

The article is about a (British) Labour party leader who gained Hamas' approval due to his sympathies. Or did you miss that point?

No I got that point but I'm struggling to get the relevance. Corbyn is left wing but doesn't condone violence or either side. He has the approval of Hamas (who I don't think count as left wing?) because he doesn't condone the Israeli state trying to remove the Palestinian people from existence.


Most right-minded people don't agree with genocide.


I don't get how that's an example of the left wing (UK or otherwise) being more violent than the right wing?

Conina wrote: »

Try that, because if there hadn't been the capitulation of a remainer PM & government; if the UK had been united in accepting a democratic vote and presented a united front; if so many duplicitous remainer MP's had not gone running to Barnier/Junker etc. interfering - we would be out the EU by now and forging ahead but we are not, all because remaners are trying to stop Brexit. So yes, this dragging on and the stance of the EU is because of remainers.

If it wasn't for all of that, we'd be in a position where a PM was negotiating a deal without the need for Parliamentary approval, which means you could have ended up with literally anything. We'd still hit the roadblock of "what do we actually want?" and this mess would still be there but earlier.


Maybe we'd have just crashed out in March and may have been making some progress towards a deal though, so you've got that I guess.

phillw

Herzlos wrote: »

Maybe we'd have just crashed out in March and may have been making some progress towards a deal though, so you've got that I guess.

Unless you think Boris would have an epiphany and negotiate to rejoin on BRINO terms, then I don't think crashing out in March would have us any further on.

The hard border is going to be a stumbling block on any future negotiation. Not leaving until that is sorted is the quicker way forward, because the anti EU rhetoric will only increase from the right wingers when they can't have their cake and eat it.

Enterprise_1701C

Herzlos wrote: »

No I got that point but I'm struggling to get the relevance. Corbyn is right wing but doesn't condone violence or either side. He has the approval of Hamas (who I don't think count as left wing?) because he doesn't condone the Israeli state trying to remove the Palestinian people from existence.


Most right-minded people don't agree with genocide.


I don't get how that's an example of the left wing (UK or otherwise) being more violent than the right wing?

If it wasn't for all of that, we'd be in a position where a PM was negotiating a deal without the need for Parliamentary approval, which means you could have ended up with literally anything. We'd still hit the roadblock of "what do we actually want?" and this mess would still be there but earlier.

Maybe we'd have just crashed out in March and may have been making some progress towards a deal though, so you've got that I guess.

I suggest you check your post :eek:

And while I am here I shall say that I am sick of all the idiots trying to tie Boris's hands behind his back. How can negotiations go forward when they are trying to prevent him using the most valuable negotiating tool, the ability to walk away :mad: That is the only way he has a chance of getting a better agreement out of the eu. All the time we have been trying to leave the eu have had people like Bliar whispering in their ears telling them not to worry, they will betray the voters of this country and prevent us from leaving. The eu have had no reason to negotiate further.

Finally we have someone willing to actually get the country out, and the remainers are in shock that he actually has the cheek to do what it takes. Never mind that they are the ones trying to overturn a democratic vote! Little details don't matter in their pursuit of consigning that vote to the recycling pile, and the UK to a suburb of the eu.

lisyloo

What better negotiation?
The backstop in the maximum flexibility.
Why do you think we can negotiate?
EU are lying?

Herzlos

Oh yeah, whoops. Maybe I conflated Corbyn is right with being left wing

Enterprise_1701C

J

lisyloo wrote: »

What better negotiation?
The backstop in the maximum flexibility.
Why do you think we can negotiate?
EU are lying?

Well, according to many on here all politicians are liars, so yes. They have that as their negotiating position. They are basically assuring there will be a hard border in Ireland by insisting on the backstop.

Whey should they change position when they think we will be prevented from leaving by our own people?

The backstop is there as a final hurdle, they hoped they set it high enough that we could not or would not jump it. Well, it never occurred to them that we would have someone that would have the nerve to simply grab the reins and go round it.

If they want to prevent that then they will have to meet halfway, or it is they that are throwing Ireland to the wolves.

Sailtheworld

lisyloo wrote: »

Do you want it all censored?

No it's just an observation.

StevieJ

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

J

Well, according to many on here all politicians are liars, so yes. They have that as their negotiating position. They are basically assuring there will be a hard border in Ireland by insisting on the backstop.

Whey should they change position when they think we will be prevented from leaving by our own people?

The backstop is there as a final hurdle, they hoped they set it high enough that we could not or would not jump it. Well, it never occurred to them that we would have someone that would have the nerve to simply grab the reins and go round it.

If they want to prevent that then they will have to meet halfway, or it is they that are throwing Ireland to the wolves.

In my opinion Johnson and his Organ Grinder are playing games, they have no intention of leaving without a deal (who in their right mind would, especially if they carry the can if it all goes wrong) . He wants an election before 31st Oct, increased majority, then ditch those DUP Mp's, finally they will draw a border across the Irish Sea to solve the border problem. He is agitating for a vote of 'no confidence' or something like, so he can pitch parliament against the people. A risky strategy, Farage has every right to be supicious of him.