Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

buglawton

gfplux wrote: »

There is just the possibility that this “move” by Johnson will focus everyone’s mind and the withdrawal/transition/political understanding deal with just a “few” changes will be agreed by Parliament.

So we'll see if Farage's suspicion per his LBC show is true, that Boris's real intent is, wait for EU to allow one tweak to the WA/Backsop part. Then rush Parliament into a last minute vote for May's entire deal with that tweak. This is how Boris hopes to face the Autumn GE and maximise his time in power.

Moby

Last month Nicky Morgan said she would support legal action against proroguing paliament:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98NrbsFaCrI&feature=youtu.be

Yep brexit was about defending our precious constitution! How can our constitution be precious though when we are governed by bare faced liars?

Herzlos

Tromking wrote: »

That bit was covered by the leaders of the official remain campaign, Cameron and Osborne, who made the odd speech or two to that effect.

Wait, you're saying that whilst the Leave campaign didn't mention it, Leave is being defined by the Remain campaign, who were telling you what a bad idea it was?


That's... something. Do hold the government to the claims of the opposition party during a GE? Or are you just grasping at anything that makes it seem like this is what people actually want?


What is it you want, beyond upsetting the establishment?

adindas

phillw wrote: »

it's kinda hard to not notice you.

And you ...

Tromking

Herzlos wrote: »

Wait, you're saying that whilst the Leave campaign didn't mention it, Leave is being defined by the Remain campaign, who were telling you what a bad idea it was?


That's... something. Do hold the government to the claims of the opposition party during a GE? Or are you just grasping at anything that makes it seem like this is what people actually want?


What is it you want, beyond upsetting the establishment?

Wow, that’s some rhetorical gymnastics you’ve gone through there to make not much of a point in the end.
The only thing Remainers have left is the claim that ‘no one voted for no deal’ and ‘no deal wasn’t on the ballot paper’.
Here’s the thing though, it doesn’t matter what individual voters thought or even if I’m honest what the various campaign groups said prior to the referendum, the question was simple and binary, in or out.
The democratic imperative to leave the EU is still trumping everything else and consequently the fact that our MP’s are refusing to carry out our instruction is causing political chaos.
To answer your question as to what I want, I want them to do as they’re told. After all, they did ask me if I wanted to remain in the EU or not. That should be your wish to, but inexplicably it isn’t.

BikingBud

We have wasted 3 years with this and Parliament still haven't delivered what the electorate voted for and they agreed to by passing the withdrawal bill and submitting A50.

What difference if any will a few extra days of squabbling make?

The entrenched positions will not change.

The politicians disregard for the expressed desire of the electorate will not change.

We will hear more noise and there will be lots of hot air and foaming at the mouth but those days will not move the argument forward.

There must be a route to breaking the impasse, if this method works then we can all move on. Save those who will whinge eternal.

Moby

BikingBud wrote: »

What difference if any will a few extra days of squabbling make?

The entrenched positions will not change.

The politicians disregard for the expressed desire of the electorate will not change.

We will hear more noise and there will be lots of hot air and foaming at the mouth but those days will not move the argument forward.

There must be a route to breaking the impasse, if this method works then we can all move on. Save those who will whinge eternal.

Mmmm... parliamentary democracy does tend to be inconvenient for those who prefer govmt by diktat....the very arguments used by populists and dictators the world over.....and there was me thinking brexit was about protecting our constitution and sovereignty!:)

A true democrat would do everything to increase opportunities for debate, no matter their personal view on a subject! At a time when our country is riven, using constitutional devices to stifle debate is a deeply sinister manoeuvre and is both hypocritical and dishonest!

BikingBud

Moby wrote: »

A true democrat would do everything to increase opportunities for debate, no matter their personal view on a subject! At a time when our country is riven, using constitutional devices to stifle debate is a deeply sinister manoeuvre and is both hypocritical and dishonest!

But we cannot debate endlessly.

How long do you suggest is adequate to debate?

For 6 weeks? 12 weeks? Until you get the answer you wish? Have you asked your mum and auntie Joan yet, or just you grandma and grandad?

The Speaker previously rejected a 3rd debate, what if anything has really changed?

The country is paralysed by inactivity and indecision.

We have at some point to get off the fence and make decisions.

This decision provides that focus.

The academics can do all the research and review and blame after the event but we have to move forward based upon the will of the electorate and the decision of the House.

Conina

Moby wrote: »

Mmmm... parliamentary democracy does tend to be inconvenient for those who prefer govmt by diktat....the very arguments used by populists and dictators the world over.....and there was me thinking brexit was about protecting our constitution and sovereignty!:)

A true democrat would do everything to increase opportunities for debate, no matter their personal view on a subject! At a time when our country is riven, using constitutional devices to stifle debate is a deeply sinister manoeuvre and is both hypocritical and dishonest!

Three years we've had of your "opportunities for debate" which we all know were really nothing more than devious, underhanded attempts to ignore the result of our referendum and keep us in the EU by one method or another; now that a government has had the b@lls to say "Enough!" and has acted to protect our democracy, our constitution & our sovereignty, these would-be-dictatorial politicians still trying to refuse to honour the referendum throw their dummies out the pram!

Again!

Three years wasted thanks to hypocritcal dishonest anti-Brexit MP's who have at last been put in their place, well now we will really see just who is prepared to uphold the result of a referendum and who isn't - and we know who voted to put forward Article 50 so let's see if they value their seats and positions as MP's because many of them know they risk either deselection or losing at the next election, losing their place on the gravy train will serve them right.

mayonnaise

Tromking wrote: »

That bit was covered by the leaders of the official remain campaign, Cameron and Osborne, who made the odd speech or two to that effect.

But Troms, that was supposed to be dismissed as 'Project Fear' don't you remember?

And for every leader of the Remain campaign stating we would leave the CU and SM, I'll give you a leader of the Leave campaign saying there is no way we'd leave the CU and SM.

Anyway, we've discussed this to death on here. Let's focus on the future. I say 'no deal' is off the table. and yesterday's move by Johnson cemented that.

There's no majority for no deal in parliament
There's no majority for no deal within the general population.
There's no majority for no deal within the business community.
There's no majority for no deal anywhere.
So I wonder why you guys think you're going to get a no deal brexit.