Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

kabayiri

Herzlos wrote: »

I thought this was an interesting opinion piece about careful misuse of truth. I'm sure there's an equivalent one about Remainers out there somewhere.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/for-brexiteers-the-point-is-to-win-everybody-else-can-go-hang-1.3764288?mode=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

It's an article from the Irish times. Obviously they are going to push their preferred view on things.

Why should they be any more knowledgeable on how people feel in the UK, compared to...err..y'know, those of us who actually live here!

andrewf75

kabayiri wrote: »

It's an article from the Irish times. Obviously they are going to push their preferred view on things.

Why should they be any more knowledgeable on how people feel in the UK, compared to...err..y'know, those of us who actually live here!

I’ve read quite a few foreign news articles where I’ve thought they seem to know us better than we know ourselves.

laughbro

All MP'S from all parties should tell the people the truth about the Lisbon Treaty and what will happen if we don't Leave the EU. ..Google it for yourselves. ... !
Borrowed this from another post. Read and BELIEVE! If you Have any doubts about leaving the Corrupt EU and its corrupt unelected Beurocrats of Brussels this will make you change your mind to #LEAVEMEANSLEAVE

What will actually happen if we stay in the EU and has already been agreed. Check it out if you wish:
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen the move is fully cancelled but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealth
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.; Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020

This is the future what the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatonsAll MP'S from all parties should tell the people the truth about the Lisbon Treaty and what will happen if we don't Leave the EU. ..Google it for yourse


I have googled this and its a lot of guff,, we have a VETO on all EU laws - strangly we only vote against the EU on the subject of Tax laws,

First of all, I'm a centrist. I don't think hardcore socialism can work any more than hard core capitalism. I've read Robert Tressell's Ragged Trousered Philanthropists - the strongest argument for socialism. I don't think it can work. At the moment though, we're in deep sh*t.

We're living in an economy where the top 1% are stripping the country bare without contributing a thing and the divide is getting bigger and bigger. The 2019 EU Anti-Tax Haven legislation might have gone some way to mitigating this.

However, when the people it would affect learned about it - they went hell bent for leaving the EU. Before it was announced the EU was mainly a political scapegoat and outlet for media racism. Watch the Panama Papers and the Paradise Papers and imagine how those billionaires that pay zero tax will feel about having to contribute their fair share.

Then there's the disaster capitalists who stand to make a fortune out of the UK's demise. For example Crispin Odey made £200 million in ONE NIGHT when the UK voted to leave by betting against the pound. He campaigned for leave by the way. It's a bit like a footballer betting against his own team then trying to score own goals.

Then there's Putin who wants to destabilize the EU. He's already annexed Crimea, shot down a Malaysian Air Liner, gone to war in Ukraine and seized several Ukrainian boats. If the EU falls several states will be under threat by Russia. There's still the question over Aaron Banks and Nigel Fartage recieving Russian money.

There ARE people who benefit from Brexit, but they are NOT the people conned into voting for it. Every single argument for leaving the EU is bunkum. UK MEP's voted WITH the EU on 95% of votes. We are NOT losing sovereignty.

The UK sold it's fishing quotas. The EU had nothing to do with the shrinking fishing industry and to be fair the financial sector is many times the fishing industry in terms of GDP. If we lose that but get back fishing we'll be 1000 times worse off.

We always had control of our borders. If the UK government had implemented the 3 month rule we could have sent non-self-supporting immigrants back after 3 months. They couldn't be bothered. We also need skilled and unskilled migrant workers. If we can't get them from Poland we'll end up shipping them in from the Common Wealth - for example Pakistan. Immigrants payed in far more taxes than they took out.

Turkey is NOT joining the EU and even if they did by some miracle manage it - the entire population of Turkey is NOT desperate to move to the UK. I honestly suspect more would prefer Germany which has a long history of inviting Turkish Gaster Arbeiters to live there.

Brexit was a con, a sham, and it's now showing. If Brexit was honestly been a good idea, It wouldn't have taken insane levels of illegal spending by the leave campaign, years of lies and hate by the tax-dodging billionaire UK media barons who want to keep their tax havens open and thousands of Russian Troll Farms flooding Twitter for months.

The only argument left for Brexit now we know the TRUTH, is that people voted for it. But people voted based on a pack of lies.

Brexit isn't about soveriegnty or immigration or fishing and you're a fool if you believe that. It's about protecting the wealth of the British elite. They want to keep their tax havens and they want to turn the UK into a mini-America, a low-rent, deregulated Tax Haven on the shores of Europe. They'll do very well out of Brexit - sadly the rest of us are screwed.

The reason the Tory party are still pushing ahead with this nonsense is that many of these tax dodgers are massive Tory party donors. They'll be lobbying and donating because that's cheaper than paying their fair share of tax.

Corbyn wants Brexit because he believes the system is broken and needs replacing. In that, he MAY be right, but his desire to destroy the system to pave the way is flawed.

The economic recovery of the UK from Brexit will take at least 50 years or more. We still don't know the long term consequences of Brexit on the EU, the UK and Western Europe in general.

What we DO know is Scotland is likely to end up an independent EU country if Brexit goes ahead. Gibraltar may well have to move to shared sovereignty with Spain to secure trade deals and we'll probably see more pressure for a United Ireland.

Brexit is an utter catastrophe. The damage it's ALREADY done is horrific. Over TWO years of wasted political will, arguing over how we wreck the country.

History WILL NOT look favourably on Brexiteers. They'll be compared to the moderates in 1930's Germany who enabled the Nazi party to take power.

J_Nostin

Oh please.

Will some people never learn? Not satisfied with calling Brexiters thick, racist, or gammons now we're all Nazis! Sheesh, then some folk wonder why there is such a divide in this country. Well it's because of behaviour like that from people who not just don't like that their side lost, they HATE it enough to turn anarchist.

BobQ

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

b

As the Withdrawal Act stipulates that we leave on the 29th March, if a deal hasn’t been struck by that time, we leave without a deal. That is the law that the vast majority of MPs enacted. No deal can't be taken off the table unless Article 50 is revoked.

Why does Corby not understand that very simple fact? He couldn’t possibly be playing politics, could he?

No deal can be taken off the table by persuading the EU to accept a delay.

He could be playing politics but that does not mean he is wrong about her sincerity to engage with other people's ideas. Today was evidence that all she is saying is that she will "listen". Nothing about considering what she hears.

Moe_The_Bartender

mayonnaise wrote: »

Welcome, new posters. :wave:

Hello, Mayo. I'm sure that we can have friendly debates even in matters on which we may disagree.

BobQ

We are ready for a no deal

https://www.channel4.com/news/mayor-of-ostend-casts-doubts-over-uk-government-ferry-contract

Stiff upper lip will see us through

https://www.joe.co.uk/news/no-deal-brexit-channel-trade-drop-87-216481

Cross-Channel freight trade could drop by between 75% and 87% for six months in the event of a "no-deal" Brexit, according to a Border Force document obtained by Sky News.

https://news.sky.com/story/cross-channel-freight-trade-could-drop-by-87-govt-document-warns-11614002

Even the Border Force are worried

phillw

J_Nostin wrote: »

Yes, 498 voted in favour of starting the process vs 114 who were opposed. Let's see if they really think they will all keep their precious seats if they try to frustrate what they themselves voted for.

Or whether they will keep their seat when both the remain and leave voters blame them for leaving the EU.

J_Nostin wrote: »

Will some people never learn? Not satisfied with calling Brexiters thick, racist, or gammons now we're all Nazis!

Are you sure you understood what he said? He wasn't accusing you of being a nazi, he said that you have something in common with the people who voted the nazi's into power.

Some people voted to leave the EU because they were involved in hedge funds and it made them millions. I have no idea why anyone else would have, the profit in the hedge funds is coming from them. Any other imagined benefit will get eaten up by inflation & everything comes down to money in the end.

J_Nostin wrote: »

Sheesh, then some folk wonder why there is such a divide in this country

The financial crisis in 2008 & austerity policies. Looking at the calibre of brexit supporting MP, you're backing the wrong horse.

I agree with rees mogg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3rX4nJ0snc It would make sense to have that second referendum now.

mayonnaise

BobQ wrote: »

We are ready for a no deal


Stiff upper lip will see us through

Documents from the Border Force show freight trade may operate at as little as 13% of its current capacity for six months.

For a second, I read this as 'down by 13%'
But no...13% of current capacity it is...hmmm...:think:

Sometimes I wonder if a hard brexit would be exactly the thing we need to cure this nation once and for all of its grubby Europhobia and its post-colonial delusions of grandeur.

A couple of weeks of rationing, food riots and hyper inflation followed by a government of national unity starting emergency negotiations with the EU to get us back in asap.

andrewf75

mayonnaise wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder if a hard brexit would be exactly the thing we need to cure this nation once and for all of its grubby Europhobia and its post-colonial delusions of grandeur.

A couple of weeks of rationing, food riots and hyper inflation followed by a government of national unity starting emergency negotiations with the EU to get us back in asap.

I'm increasingly agreeing with your first bit. If we don't have a hard Brexit, there will always be those calling for it and a large proportion of the population seem to go along with it. This won't go away and will continue to disrupt our politics.

I disagree that we could ever rejoin though. When we regain our sanity and are ready to rejoin the world in a generations time, it will be with a close partnership to the EU like Switzerland or Norway.