Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Tromking

phillw wrote: »

Of course you're not sure, it doesn't meet your bias & admitting it would be hard for you.

The EU citizens who are in the UK as a whole contribute more than they use, of course this isn't true for every individual case. But then UK born children & a lot of adults haven't contributed either, so I don't see where your argument can go without turning into "but it's different because they weren't born here" and accidentally making a xenophobic argument.

It’s not xenophobic to say that U.K. citizens have a more justifiable case to access U.K. based benefits in a Brexit scenario than EU citizens.

Nasqueron

Tromking wrote: »

It’s not xenophobic to say that U.K. citizens have a more justifiable case to access U.K. based benefits in a Brexit scenario than EU citizens.

On what basis though? What is the "justifiable" case? The fact one person was born on one side of some imaginary, man-made line on a map and another was born on the other? Lines that have no meaning in the grand scheme of things?


The first generation of EU migrants contribute, on average, £1.48 for every £1 they get from the UK. How much does a person in the UK on benefits contribute to the system? How much does a career mum who pops out sprogs at regular intervals and never works a day in her life, vs a hard working EU citizen who pays taxes from day of arrival into a job?

Tromking

Nasqueron wrote: »

On what basis though? What is the "justifiable" case? The fact one person was born on one side of some imaginary, man-made line on a map and another was born on the other? Lines that have no meaning in the grand scheme of things?

You're obviously making a more nuanced point based around the moral legitimacy of nation states as it relates to needs of people. This whole debate however centres around a nation state opting to leave a collection of other nation states who have designs on being a supranational entity.

Nasqueron wrote: »

The first generation of EU migrants contribute, on average, £1.48 for every £1 they get from the UK. How much does a person in the UK on benefits contribute to the system? How much does a career mum who pops out sprogs at regular intervals and never works a day in her life, vs a hard working EU citizen who pays taxes from day of arrival into a job?

If I made such sweeping statements about others, you'd be calling me a xenophobe.

buglawton

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

I hadn't actually realised that the German healthcare system is based on a statutory puplic health insurance of at least 14.6% of your salary.

It's what's called an honest system not subject to the tinkering of politicians.
Btw there's a separate NHS tread active in MSE.

Herzlos

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

I hadn't actually realised that the German healthcare system is based on a statutory puplic health insurance of at least 14.6% of your salary.

And we pay a statutory national insurance of 11% (I think), we just put that money in a lot and make it free to access instead of making it insurance based. Foreigners can still be treated and the costs could be recovered from their host nation if we bothered to do the paperwork.

Tromking

Bad day for the Brexit wreckers yesterday. Magic Grandpa’s sop to his large pro-Remain rump was quite rightly voted down and the new PM still has no deal on the table. Despite the utterances of Dominic Greive and his ilk, I still can’t imagine a situation where enough Tories MP’s will vote down their own Government and egro let Corbyn into power.

Moby

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/12/brexit-shambles-has-ruined-uk-reputation-says-senior-diplomat

'Scott Wightman, Britain’s outgoing senior diplomat in Singapore, has said Britain is now seen worldwide as a country beset by division, obsessed with ideology and careless of truth.

In a valedictory note, he compared Brexit to the fall of Singapore in 1942 and said major investors expect future investment in Europe to be directed more towards Germany and France.'

So this is what our senior Singapore diplomat thinks about our brexit dreams of an offshore tax haven paradise!

Moby

Tromking wrote: »

It’s not xenophobic to say that U.K. citizens have a more justifiable case to access U.K. based benefits in a Brexit scenario than EU citizens.

Don't British citizens have equivalent rights in EU countries?

Tromking

Moby wrote: »

Don't British citizens have equivalent rights in EU countries?

Yes. Of course.

Tromking

Moby wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/12/brexit-shambles-has-ruined-uk-reputation-says-senior-diplomat

'Scott Wightman, Britain’s outgoing senior diplomat in Singapore, has said Britain is now seen worldwide as a country beset by division, obsessed with ideology and careless of truth.

In a valedictory note, he compared Brexit to the fall of Singapore in 1942 and said major investors expect future investment in Europe to be directed more towards Germany and France.'

So this is what our senior Singapore diplomat thinks about our brexit dreams of an offshore tax haven paradise!

Sounds like yet another time served Civil Servant struggling to adapt to the new direction the British people have set. Easy to forget the left behind former pit villages of Northern England when you’re sipping cocktails in the Raffles Hotel on an expense account.