Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Moby

Arklight wrote: »

I don't think the EU made an example of us. They never had to because we collapsed as a negotiating force the day after the referendum.

A government of two-faced career politicians representing a portion of an electorate they mostly detest against a political union they don't understand. Never going to be a recipe for success was it?

As a Corbynite I do say with regret, that the clock has run out for Labour, he needs to say unambiguously what a Labour government will do about this because if he doesn't, no-one will think they seriously can be a government.

Agreed but the 27 stayed united under one negotiating position despite all the predictions from brexiteers and there has been no 'cherry picking'! Boris of course will change this and get us a wonderful deal. After all he has a great track record to give us confidence doesn't he!
Interestingly saw an email sent to a friend from Tom Watson saying internal Labour Party polling shows we would have performed much better in these elections if a wholly remain stance had been taken. Rumours are rife that Corbyn will stand down next spring. The new tory leader will need to go to the country by next June to get their own mandate after a 'give away' budget in March. A more electorally friendly Labour leader at a general election next year may win..........especially now the tories are tarnished by brexit?

Arklight

Moby wrote: »

Agreed but the 27 stayed united under one negotiating position despite all the predictions from brexiteers and there has been no 'cherry picking'! Boris of course will change this and get us a wonderful deal. After all he has a great track record to give us confidence doesn't he!
Interestingly saw an email sent to a friend from Tom Watson saying internal Labour Party polling shows we would have performed much better in these elections if a wholly remain stance had been taken. Rumours are rife that Corbyn will stand down in the autumn. The new tory leader will need to go to the country by next spring to get their own mandate. A more electorally friendly Labour leader next spring may win?

To be replaced by whom? Unless future governments are to be decided based on incredibly low turnouts of people voting for PMs on the basis of who they dislike the least, it's hard to see what Labour would gain from this.

I can totally understand if he's had enough by now. Pushed to power on his honesty and principles by millennials who are now having a tantrum because he won't suddenly abandon them to suit their view on the EU. I would say it's up to them what happens. Many people need to come to an understanding that national politics isn't the same as un-following an Instagram post.

Meanwhile the Tories, clearly, have abandoned any pretence at caring about what happens to their country and will just appoint the most racist, right wing candidate they can find in the hope of creating their own Donald Trump moment.

fewgroats

I'm surprised this is more widely known that gender neutral names are banned in Germany like Ashley and Taylor (and presumably Tyler, Pat and Chris for girls too). It's certainly a more valid reason for liberal people to be against Germany. It seems a bit daft banning a name unless it leads to bullying or is rude in any case.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/4539088/baby-names-banned-other-countries/

Arklight

fewgroats wrote: »

I'm surprised this is more widely known that gender neutral names are banned in Germany like Ashley and Taylor (and presumably Tyler, Pat and Chris for girls too). It's certainly a more valid reason for liberal people to be against Germany. It seems a bit daft banning a name unless it leads to bullying or is rude in any case.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/4539088/baby-names-banned-other-countries/

And he's back from the wilderness. With europhobia from The Sun.

Well, if this is what you've sunk to, I will respond. Few countries don't have banned names, sometimes it is down to the registrar's discretion. Germany is just like everywhere else.

German law says that you have to be able to identify the gender of a person by their first name. If the name is "neuter" then it has to be a second name after the gender identifying first name.

It's not really that fascistic is it? The UK doesn't allow you to give your kids stupid names that will make people make fun of them either. Although apparently this doesn't apply to much of the Tory party.

http://www.firstnamesgermany.com/the-german-law-on-first-names/

Moby

Arklight wrote: »

To be replaced by whom? Unless future governments are to be decided based on incredibly low turnouts of people voting for PMs on the basis of who they dislike the least, it's hard to see what Labour would gain from this.

I can totally understand if he's had enough by now. Pushed to power on his honesty and principles by millennials who are now having a tantrum because he won't suddenly abandon them to suit their view on the EU. I would say it's up to them what happens. Many people need to come to an understanding that national politics isn't the same as un-following an Instagram post.

Meanwhile the Tories, clearly, have abandoned any pretence at caring about what happens to their country and will just appoint the most racist, right wing candidate they can find in the hope of creating their own Donald Trump moment.

Apologies ...I amended my post ....I meant to say next spring....but you said yourself Labour has been incoherent on the EU and as a result we've seen support go to the Lib Dems and Greens. The time of 'riding two horses' has to end! You can't be a little bit pregnant. We are either a pro-EU Party or we are not. A Customs Union and/or Single Market membership compromise is still worse than the deal we have now!

fewgroats

Arklight wrote: »

And he's back from the wilderness. With europhobia from The Sun.

Well, if this is what you've sunk to, I will respond. Few countries don't have banned names, sometimes it is down to the registrar's discretion. Germany is just like everywhere else.

German law says that you have to be able to identify the gender of a person by their first name. If the name is "neuter" then it has to be a second name after the gender identifying first name.

http://www.firstnamesgermany.com/the-german-law-on-first-names/

That's more believable. It was reported by the indy100 as well, but the Sun article was to the point. Just wondering why a name had to identify anything really. You do have to state the sex too.

In the age of choosing to have gender neutral children and similar ideas this may even be something that will soon have its day?

It's a distraction from Boris anyway.

Thrugelmir

Theophile wrote: »

Dutch EU election exit polls...

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/24/europe/european-elections-netherlands-nos-exit-poll-intl/index.html


Interesting...

43% turnout. Underwhelming interest it seems in such important matters.

Le Pen might outpoll Macron. Sums up the state of Europe at the current time. A complete divergence of views across a spectrum of topics. Of which the UK is a mere microcosm.

Arklight

Moby wrote: »

Apologies ...I amended my post ....I meant to say next spring....but you said yourself Labour has been incoherent on the EU and as a result we've seen support go to the Lib Dems and Greens. The time of 'riding two horses' has to end! You can't be a little bit pregnant. We are either a pro-EU Party or we are not. A Customs Union and/or Single Market membership compromise is still worse than the deal we have now!

I think personally it's a mistake to come out as either a pro or anti EU party, because Brexit isn't a party political issue. There appear to be as many Labour voters who want to leave as Tory voters who want to stay.

What Brexit is, unfortunately, is an age and class based issue. Older working class people are hugely more likely to be Leavers than young people who identify as middle class. This creates a headache for all parties apart from the Lib Dems who have chosen to abandon working class boomers altogether.

Labour can't be a broad church on Brexit. Corbyn could however, get behind a second referendum on the basis that the Tories have mismanaged both the first referendum and this refractory period so badly that any kind of pool the UK could have dived into 2 years ago, is now polluted beyond hope.

And actually that's not far from the truth. There is no appetite within the EU to negotiate with the Conservatives. Any replacement for May will be more repulsive than she is, and they've been too inept to manage to plan anything with the the rest of the world.

This is a Tory mess and I think the electorate would understand that it will take time to clean up.

BobQ

undetterred wrote: »

Result was clear enough.

Sorry I did not realise you are using your second language. More clearly meas more clearly than the result.

phillw

Arklight wrote: »

I think personally it's a mistake to come out as either a pro or anti EU party, because Brexit isn't a party political issue.

How is supporting the most damaging change to the UK in our lifetimes, not a party political issue?

While I accept that people might want to leave, politicians are supposed to be above such prejudices & they should be standing up for our future.