Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Rinoa

Arklight wrote: »

Just gone to vote. Tory voting boomer area.

So, although you're a momentum loving champion of the poor, downtrodden lower classes, you don't actually want to live with them. You'd rather mix with the Conservatives.

movilogo

I think you misunderstand human nature.

I think that is true for remainers

Remainers only argue about (perceived and unproven) economic armageddon.

Leave votes mostly voted on emotion. Leave voters want to leave EU without worrying about whatever happens later. It could be good ending or bad ending.

Status quo, staying in EU, does not equate to good.

Thrugelmir

phillw wrote: »

I think you misunderstand human nature.

Not at all. Like Corbyn there's people on the poltitical spectrum that simply get entrenched in their views. Meanwhile the world continues to move forward at a pace. People on the street simply want the issues that affect their daily lives addressed.

ben501

phillw wrote: »

No and you either don't understand why it wouldn't be better

Surely this bit can be argued to eternity as 'better' is highly subjective. Leaving and rejoining would be far better from a Leave point of view as the result will have been honoured, so democracy fulfilled. If you're looking from a financial perspective then I agree as we most likely wouldn't get the same terms as now if we rejoined later.

phillw wrote: »

Leave won on a lie,

Are there statistics (which are of course lies in themselves;)) on the number who actually voted Leave based on these 'lies'?
And are there similar statistics to the numbers who were convinced to vote remain based on government supplied lies and disinformation?
Or is your comment just another sour grapes claim?

phillw wrote: »

anyone who saw the £350 million a week on the red bus and believed it was true

I get the impression far more Remainers were taken in by this. They sure do a lot of complaining about it still. Is it really the best argument for cancelling Brexit?




Here's an idea, and one I could support. Call a general election, but with all the MPs who originally agreed to holding the referendum, and all those who voted to go ahead with Article 50, despite clearly not understanding the ramifications, should be excluded from standing or holding office again. That way all MPs whatever party they represent would not be tarred with being two faced. If they get voted in to office on a point of cancelling Brexit, so be it.
The only ones allowed to stand again would be those who still stand by their original votes, so a few Brexit supporting MPs, and any of those who refused to support the referendum/Article 50 in the first place.

Not going to happen of course because so many of them have snouts so firmly buried in the trough.


Come to think of it, why have there not been more calls for a mass resignation of MPs? Leave voters are constantly being called names, along with a variety of comments about lack of understanding about the way the EU is run, yet MPs who clearly showed an equal ignorance of the subject are still allowed to run the country. If they hadn't agreed to the referendum (without considering and/or understanding the consequences), and if they hadn't subsequently agreed to trigger article 50 (without considering and/or understanding the consequences), we wouldn't be in this situation. Yet Leave voters get all the blame.

BikingBud

ben501 wrote: »

The only ones allowed to stand again would be those who still stand by their original votes, so a few Brexit supporting MPs, and any of those who refused to support the referendum/Article 50 in the first place.

Not going to happen of course because so many of them have snouts so firmly buried in the trough.


Come to think of it, why have there not been more calls for a mass resignation of MPs? Leave voters are constantly being called names, along with a variety of comments about lack of understanding about the way the EU is run, yet MPs who clearly showed an equal ignorance of the subject are still allowed to run the country. If they hadn't agreed to the referendum (without considering and/or understanding the consequences), and if they hadn't subsequently agreed to trigger article 50 (without considering and/or understanding the consequences), we wouldn't be in this situation. Yet Leave voters get all the blame.

Gets my vote:T:T

I am much more concerned about the continued incompetence demonstrated by our MPs than the various opinions that are offered on here about what was right, what was lies, what is going to cause the world to implode etc.

I have little confidence in them to deliver anything other than, I was going to suggest the morning paper but no doubt that would arrive just in time for dinner.

Clear them out and start afresh with 250 clearly focussed, selfless and stoical individuals who understand duty and honour and respect.

Theophile

mayonnaise wrote: »

I'm going to stick my head out and predict the brexit party is not going to do as well in today's election as some recent polling suggests.

With massive voter suppression keeping away likely Remain minded voters, I predict brexit party will do very well.


Also, holding the vote on a working day (as opposed to Sunday as in democratic EU member states) will tend to a higher turnout of economically inactive voters, which again favours the brexit party.

Thrugelmir

Theophile wrote: »

Also, holding the vote on a working day (as opposed to Sunday as in democratic EU member states) will tend to a higher turnout of economically inactive voters, which again favours the brexit party.

Slovakia turnout

2004 - 16.97%
2009 - 19.64%
2014 - 13.05%

The interest in Brussels is somewhat underwhelming.

1979 - 61.99% voted across the EU.

2014 - 43.09%.

Speaks for itself. When you factor in certain countries have compulsory voting.

Tromking

Theophile wrote: »

With massive voter suppression keeping away likely Remain minded voters, I predict brexit party will do very well.


Also, holding the vote on a working day (as opposed to Sunday as in democratic EU member states) will tend to a higher turnout of economically inactive voters, which again favours the brexit party.

Filed in the ‘get you excuses in early’ folder.

Thrugelmir

Tromking wrote: »

Filed in the ‘get you excuses in early’ folder.

One suspect the UK is going to be divided between the Cities and the rural areas.

Herzlos

movilogo wrote: »

If 2nd ref happens, say remain wins by similar narrow margin.

Then [1] why there won't be 3rd ref? [2] why 1st win by Leave would be discarded but same narrow margin win by Remain will be considered end of the matter?

If it's needed to conclude things, then sure.

This is why it is better to leave EU first and then after few years offer a ref whether people want to re-join.

This is akin to the transparent plot to leave a nightclub on the promise of going back, and once out the door going "oh no, they won't let us". Once we leave the EU we lose all of our opt-outs on re-entry, and thus the argument for staying out strengthens - the damage has already been done so we may as well stay out now. It's sort of already the case since our car industry is gone or going.

The "what kind of leave" argument was introduced by Remainers to overturn the referendum result, simply because they didn't like the outcome.

There are two pro-brexit cabinet members that have opposite approaches to tariffs - one wants tariff free with the world to get cheap goods and kill British farming, the other wants higher tariffs to bring up costs and save British farming. Those are in the core team that should be united. The cabinet elsewhere can't decide on what we want which is why people keep resigning, there's no majority for any approach.



Revisionism makes it look like the Brexiteers are in agreement, having always wanted WTO, but the reality is the message keeps changing so that suddenly the Brexiteers always wanted whatever the outcome looks like. We know that Leave covers the whole spectrum from the Norway approach all the way to North Korea. Most prominent Leave campaigners have been recorded suggesting that the Norway approach or single market is the way they wanted to go.


How anyone can claim that all Leave voters are united is beyond me.