Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Arklight

Guy Verhofstadt is tweeting. He stands shoulder to shoulder with the millions to defy the Brexit cronies. He is with us!

The revolt against Brexit, by marching and petitions, is the best answer to all kind of populists and nationalists who promised the undeliverable and then ran away.

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1109421073341313030

kabayiri

Is that the same Guy as in this clip? The EU-level nationalist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xg7JwbJfWA

Moby

BikingBud wrote: »

@Moby - Did i say I support May's vision of Brexit?

I said we have a majority to leave.

Leave means exactly that.

Go stand on our own merits and work with the rest of world's nations to develop a better nation for ourselves.

Many people only want to point their nose out if they have the comfort of a safety blanket, it's like kids leaving home and declaring freedom but coming back for Sunday lunch, to get the washing done, finding your mum has done you some shopping etc. It is a fallacy of independence.

I admire May for her diligence, single-mindedness and respect for the people, her desire to do what the electorate have decided. That is not the same as supporting her plan and often on these boards people cannot separate those 2 elements.

Where is my implied acceptance of another referendum that will lead to a remain win?

We both feel the whole perspective of the leave/remain debate is squint as many of the proposed options are not about leave but keep, they are stay but lose.

If we leave we are outside the party. If we stay but give up various elements then we are disenfranchised but do not have the freedom. BINO is a reasonable term but we really should assess the current situation as stay but relinquish control.

Many things we disagree with place us, as a nation and individuals, in a less well off position than we might otherwise have been. We get the options at GE to influence that situation.

Please tell me succinctly what the issue is with the Irish border?

You didn't comment upon contingency planning and the effective measures that the Government have enacted Just in Case.

We are poles apart BikingBud. I have no respect for May. She is a self interested opportunist who has failed even by the judgement of her own tribe. She is trying to bully MP's to accept a flawed deal by threatening them with a public backlash. Hopefully the architect of windrush will be gone soon. Corbyn is a bigger brexiter than her. She just changed sides to hold her party together.

I don't believe in nationhood, patriotism etc. That's 20th century politics so I can't really relate to your vision of 'freedom'.
Re. he contingency planning....this sums it up:

One source with knowledge of Operation Yellowhammer made clear that while planning had stepped up, the overall picture remained chaotic and “rudderless”.

Re. the Irish Border my point was people didn't take the issues into account so their decision to vote for brexit wasn't informed. Re. what the actual Irish issue is ....a quick google search using the term 'backstop' will tell you.

Arklight

kabayiri wrote: »

Is that the same Guy as in this clip? The EU-level nationalist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xg7JwbJfWA

What's wrong with that? That's what the EU project is.

The point you (intentionally) miss is that when national powers are shared within the EU, the member states share those powers, they aren't lost sovereignty they are gained influence.

Europhobes have never understood what the EU is, or how they are meant to use it.

Rinoa

Arklight wrote: »

The numbers are greater than anyone could have hoped. The streets are a sea of blue and gold as far as the eye can see. Chanting and optimism fills the air. Truly the EU is the Mother of the People today. These protestors draw their strength to defy the corruption of May's Brexit from all the European heartlands, from Bulgaria to Brussels the people join hands with our European brothers and sisters!

Still dwarfed by the 17,000,000 who marched to the polling booths and voted to Leave.

Rinoa

Arklight wrote: »

What's wrong with that? That's what the EU project is.

The point you (intentionally) miss is that when national powers are shared within the EU, the member states share those powers, they aren't lost sovereignty they are gained influence.

Europhobes have never understood what the EU is, or how they are meant to use it.

If we want to make certain laws, but the other EU countries say we can't, then we have lost our sovereignty.

Moby

Rinoa wrote: »

Still dwarfed by the 17,000,000 who marched to the polling booths and voted to Leave.

How many of that 17m support May's deal;)

Arklight

Rinoa wrote: »

If we want to make certain laws, but the other EU countries say we can't, then we have lost our sovereignty.

If other countries want to make certain laws that will directly affect us and we say they can't then we have just gained sovereignty.

Currently the EU is deciding what our Brexit will look like and when it will happen, while our Prime Minister stands impotently at the meeting room door biting her nails.

That's the influence we have as a third tier country. Somewhere between little and none.

BikingBud

Do you have respect for any politicians?

What has Corbyn added to the process? He left the meeting last week out of schoolboyish spite. But both leaders are, as are the majority of those within the circus, entrenched.

Architect of Windrush? - Why not have a dig at Bliar for taking us to war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Or Brown for leading us into a massive period of austerity? Both of those events have had a significant impact and irreversible upon our current worth.

Contingency Plans - So a source!!!! What are your plans? Do you plan? Do you have a need to plan or do you just follow those making the most noise, especially those in papers like the Graudian and Mirror?

How do you define freedom then? Being part of an increasingly totalitarian state? Where we as a net contributor diminish our resources and make it illegal for our industries to compete on a level playing field.

So you can't explain the Irish boarder then?

So still no rationale to discussion only another entrenched position.

Arklight

BikingBud wrote: »

Do you have respect for any politicians?

What has Corbyn added to the process? He left the meeting last week out of schoolboyish spite. But both leaders are, as are the majority of those within the circus, entrenched.

Architect of Windrush? - Why not have a dig at Bliar for taking us to war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Or Brown for leading us into a massive period of austerity? Both of those events have had a significant impact and irreversible upon our current worth.

Contingency Plans - So a source!!!! What are your plans? Do you plan? Do you have a need to plan or do you just follow those making the most noise, especially those in papers like the Graudian and Mirror?

How do you define freedom then? Being part of an increasingly totalitarian state? Where we as a net contributor diminish our resources and make it illegal for our industries to compete on a level playing field.

So you can't explain the Irish boarder then?

So still no rationale to discussion only another entrenched position.

Welcome new poster!

Gosh there do seem to be a lot of people on the Right who all misspell "border" in the same way.

Must be a political thing.