Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

BikingBud

Moby wrote: »

People have a right to change their minds in democracies especially when they see what's in future for us:-
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/secret-cabinet-office-document-reveals-chaotic-planning-for-no-deal-brexit/ar-BBV6SKM?ocid=spartanntp

Yes of course they do, we have a GE every 4-5 years.

But this is a fairly normal contingency planning document. It is not a schedule of events. It provides a series of events that may happen.

We expect our Government, often via COBR if it requires escalation to that level, to plan for many contingencies including; terror attacks, widespread civil unrest, strikes, power cuts, invasion, cyber attack and many other things that you would not even consider but would be happy to lay blame if they occurred and affected your life.

Remember the value of 20/20 hindsight?

Remember the 2008 financial crash, where were Labour's contingency plans for that? We lost billions and entered a prolonged period of austerity and are still in debt and because of that.:mad:

Remember Y2k- With hindsight contingency plans were not required as it went off as a damp squib but the doom-mongers were planning for the end of the world:eek: Maybe the people trying to delay or cancel Brexit would also have tried the same for Y2K.

Remember the 2001 fuel protests:

Thursday 7 September: As the price of crude oil nudges $35 a barrel, a litre of fuel in the UK looks set to rise by 2p.

Already paying about 80p a litre - the highest petrol prices in the developed world - motoring groups react with anger.

Wow 80p/litre, I wish we could go back to that but we still seem to be operating ok, driving more vehicles than ever before and still consuming fuel.

Moby, I am not sure what type of business you participate in but if you do not have plans like this then you are probably carrying risks for which you are completely unaware and unprepared. And therefore quite likely to fail under any testing circumstances, never mind Brexit, never mind a real black swan event.

We can continue to use emotive terms such as "crash out" and "chaotic" that do nothing more than feed the fire of click bait, we only have to look at the posting from Rinoa, (not sure why it was posted as there is only the link and the sensationalist headline) to consider how far we have progressed from rational discussion and practical appreciation of the challenges ahead.

We see these same traits from our elected politicians, including the Speaker, degenerating into personal digs and conflicts rather than delivering what the people decided.

Can anybody tell me what of value Corbyn, or other self centred egotists have added to the debate over the last 2 years, apart from fomenting disquiet and continually undermining the PM's efforts in delivering a deal to remove us from the EU. As a house they have only added noise and froth.

Can anybody really comment upon the vast number of different opinions that we see in Parliament and say which is correct, in the best interest of the country and which may be the path to doom? As the politicians could not decide we the people ere offered the binary choice.

We have a majority to leave Brexit, therefore that is the correct option, anything else is a failure in the due process put in place when Parliament delivered A50 and something about which the politicians should be deeply ashamed. They are inflicting damage to our democracy that will take generations to repair.

BikingBud

Rinoa wrote: »

https://order-order.com/2019/03/22/revoke-article-50-petition-creator-threatened-may-discussed-buy-legal-guns-take-commons/

@RINOA - So your point is?

If i wanted to read drivel like that I would subscribe to one of the rags that provides it, it does nothing to progress this discussion.

kabayiri

The March keeps journos and other media types in a job I suppose.

It's not useful to PM May though. For her to go and ask the EU for yet more time for another vote will be nothing short of humiliation. The EU might not even offer it. I suspect some of the EU crowd want rid of us now.

Moby

BikingBud wrote: »

Yes of course they do, we have a GE every 4-5 years.

But this is a fairly normal contingency planning document. It is not a schedule of events. It provides a series of events that may happen.

We expect our Government, often via COBR if it requires escalation to that level, to plan for many contingencies including; terror attacks, widespread civil unrest, strikes, power cuts, invasion, cyber attack and many other things that you would not even consider but would be happy to lay blame if they occurred and affected your life.

Remember the value of 20/20 hindsight?

Remember the 2008 financial crash, where were Labour's contingency plans for that? We lost billions and entered a prolonged period of austerity and are still in debt and because of that.:mad:

Remember Y2k- With hindsight contingency plans were not required as it went off as a damp squib but the doom-mongers were planning for the end of the world:eek: Maybe the people trying to delay or cancel Brexit would also have tried the same for Y2K.

Remember the 2001 fuel protests:

Wow 80p/litre, I wish we could go back to that but we still seem to be operating ok, driving more vehicles than ever before and still consuming fuel.

Moby, I am not sure what type of business you participate in but if you do not have plans like this then you are probably carrying risks for which you are completely unaware and unprepared. And therefore quite likely to fail under any testing circumstances, never mind Brexit, never mind a real black swan event.

We can continue to use emotive terms such as "crash out" and "chaotic" that do nothing more than feed the fire of click bait, we only have to look at the posting from Rinoa, (not sure why it was posted as there is only the link and the sensationalist headline) to consider how far we have progressed from rational discussion and practical appreciation of the challenges ahead.

We see these same traits from our elected politicians, including the Speaker, degenerating into personal digs and conflicts rather than delivering what the people decided.

Can anybody tell me what of value Corbyn, or other self centred egotists have added to the debate over the last 2 years, apart from fomenting disquiet and continually undermining the PM's efforts in delivering a deal to remove us from the EU. As a house they have only added noise and froth.

Can anybody really comment upon the vast number of different opinions that we see in Parliament and say which is correct, in the best interest of the country and which may be the path to doom? As the politicians could not decide we the people ere offered the binary choice.

We have a majority to leave Brexit, therefore that is the correct option, anything else is a failure in the due process put in place when Parliament delivered A50 and something about which the politicians should be deeply ashamed. They are inflicting damage to our democracy that will take generations to repair.

I question your assertion that we have a majority to leave. How many of those that voted leave would want May's deal?

Look at the Withdrawal agreement in any depth and you'll see its a denial of Brexit. We'll be staying in the Customs Union until we reach a deal and the Political Declaration says nothing about the nature of the deal! It's a totally blind Brexit. At the same time we'll be paying for the privilege of market access while in future having no voting rights! Only a fool would support such a deal! Can you seriously claim May's deal is Brexit? No It's a disastrous deal and is not good enough no matter how you voted!

This is not a football match where the losers have to just get over it. This is a matter of the future of our country and the more we learn, the more it becomes obvious that leaving the EU will be bad for this country. We now know much more about what’s in store for if/when we leave the EU than we did when the referendum was held. How many posts can you point me to offering in depth discussion about the Irish border question? You can’t just ignore what we’ve learnt with this very simplistic “we won you lost” attitude. The whole situation is far too serious for that.

Why are “leavers” so afraid of another referendum? The implication is always – as indeed it is in your post – that remain will win next time. To know that and to not allow it to happen is not only a denial of democracy and listening to the wishes of the people but also reckless in the extreme and playing with people’s lives, just because “we won; you lost.”

Arklight

The streets are swollen with the masses!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/mar/23/brexit-hundreds-of-thousands-expected-to-march-for-peoples-vote-london-live-updates

Like Saddam Hussein's statue tumbling in Baghdad they are pulling down the totems of Brexitism and smashing the pots of Brexit-believers. Their empty and hollow words are drowned out by this real people's protest!!

May will quake in her designer boots as the People approach Number 10. The Rees Mogg's - phony friends of the working man are disappearing on their private jets.

This is change. This is democracy!

Arklight

Good grief I have never seen numbers like it! The nations is united against May's Brexit catastrophe. Today Leavers find the scales have fallen from their eyes and they are marching in friendship, hand in hand with Remainers.

We are all RemainEUrs today!!

BikingBud

@Moby - Did i say I support May's vision of Brexit?

I said we have a majority to leave.

Leave means exactly that.

Go stand on our own merits and work with the rest of world's nations to develop a better nation for ourselves.

Many people only want to point their nose out if they have the comfort of a safety blanket, it's like kids leaving home and declaring freedom but coming back for Sunday lunch, to get the washing done, finding your mum has done you some shopping etc. It is a fallacy of independence.

I admire May for her diligence, single-mindedness and respect for the people, her desire to do what the electorate have decided. That is not the same as supporting her plan and often on these boards people cannot separate those 2 elements.

Where is my implied acceptance of another referendum that will lead to a remain win?

We both feel the whole perspective of the leave/remain debate is squint as many of the proposed options are not about leave but keep, they are stay but lose.

If we leave we are outside the party. If we stay but give up various elements then we are disenfranchised but do not have the freedom. BINO is a reasonable term but we really should assess the current situation as stay but relinquish control.

Many things we disagree with place us, as a nation and individuals, in a less well off position than we might otherwise have been. We get the options at GE to influence that situation.

Please tell me succinctly what the issue is with the Irish border?

You didn't comment upon contingency planning and the effective measures that the Government have enacted Just in Case.

kabayiri

All those middle class voices being interviewed on the march

I hope they made enough avocado sandwiches.

Arklight

kabayiri wrote: »

All those middle class voices being interviewed on the march

I hope they made enough avocado sandwiches.

Yes, no politicians pay any attention to the middle classes do they? Oh wait...

Arklight

The numbers are greater than anyone could have hoped. The streets are a sea of blue and gold as far as the eye can see. Chanting and optimism fills the air. Truly the EU is the Mother of the People today. These protestors draw their strength to defy the corruption of May's Brexit from all the European heartlands, from Bulgaria to Brussels the people join hands with our European brothers and sisters!