Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

wunferall

Brown_Bear wrote: »

So I'm not sure what is fueling the populism in Eastern Europe. Do you know?

In the case of Poland it's the even-cheaper-to-employ Ukrainian migration.
Poland saw a 258% increase from 2015 to 2017 just in Ukranians arriving, with over 235,000 that year (2017) and many more since.

It's similar elsewhere; EU membership brings with it a rise in local wages as the EU pumps in billions of Euro's for infrastructure projects, factories replacing those in richer EU countries etc. etc.
This has the effect of attracting others from nearby countries eager to improve their "lot" in life, which since the country's own workers have already left in droves to work in richer EU countries leads to resentment especially among those that remain.

Arklight

wunferall wrote: »

I see a lot of such similar comments.
You need to understand that it's not the UK that needs a solution, it's the EU.
The UK can just leave you know.
If the EU really want their £39 billion, a deal will be reached.

Eh? The point of leaving is that we don't have to continue paying £39 billion in membership fees.

We're going to get everything we had before, for free.

It's interesting how muddled the Brexiter arguments have become. No two of you appear to be able to agree on what is going to happen, what you want, or why.

wunferall

Arklight wrote: »

Eh? The point of leaving is that we don't have to continue paying £39 billion in membership fees.

We're going to get everything we had before, for free.

It's interesting how muddled the Brexiter arguments have become. No two of you appear to be able to agree on what is going to happen, what you want, or why.

You appear to be confused; perhaps reading what you quote again might help?
Otherwise it looks like you're the "muddled" one because nowhere did I say that £39 billion was "membership fees".
Or do you really not know, even now, the significance of the sum?

Kohoutek

wunferall wrote: »

I see a lot of such similar comments.
You need to understand that it's not the UK that needs a solution, it's the EU.
The UK can just leave you know.
If the EU really want their £39 billion, a deal will be reached.

Your comment has got to be one the stupidest posted on this forum for a while. The UK doesn't have any leverage re no deal. It would hurt the UK a lot more than the EU. It has been apparent for quite a long time if you follow the news.

The UK is never not going to pay the £39 billion (despite what the nutters in the ERG say). The whole point of Brexit is supposed to making the UK 'global'. You don't do that by reneging on obligations, particularly in the case of the UK which has always been a very open internationalist country.

Thrugelmir

Brown_Bear wrote: »

Agreed their is a rise in populism / nationalism across Europe and the USA.
But I think the situation in Poland / Hungary is quite different to the UK.
One of the main reasons for the Brexit vote was increased immigration of Eastern European workers into the UK following EU expansion eastwards.

I don't think Central / Eastern European states (such as Poland) have had such immigration. In fact, many places in Poland (especially the smaller towns) have suffered from depopulation.

It's true that many CEE voters are fearful of the EU forcing them to accept refugees from the Middle East etc. But this is a theoretical problem as the numbers of such refugees are tiny.

So I'm not sure what is fueling the populism in Eastern Europe. Do you know?

Some scars never fully heal. The EU cannot change history.

Tromking

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Arklight, why are you so desperately anti British?

It strikes me that with your general attitude you should really move somewhere more to your liking.

Arklight is a Leftist, a vital part of his credo is a thinly veiled hatred of the British State, past, present and future.
As you'll no doubt have noticed with his contributions on here, Brexit and the continuance of the British State as is, has irked him greatly.

Thrugelmir

Kohoutek wrote: »

Your comment has got to be one the stupidest posted on this forum for a while. The UK doesn't have any leverage re no deal. It would hurt the UK a lot more than the EU. It has been apparent for quite a long time if you follow the news.

Forget the EU. The UK leaving is going to impact individual communities across Europe very hard. National Governments will have issues to deal with. Eire for example is not a large economy, highly dependent on the UK for both imports and export. German car manufacturers in Bavaria likewise. Italian food imports.

Easy to be dismissive at a broad generic level i.e. GDP. Very different when one talks about people and their livelihoods.

sevenhills

Brown_Bear wrote: »

I agree that the British population is becoming more nationalist. I can't remember a time in my life when I've heard so many people come out with so much brainwashed nonsense. I thought the slow death of the tabloid press may have weakened this, but unfortunately not.

But sooner or later people will realise that 'sovereignty' doesn't pay the mortgage or put petrol in their car.

More nationalistic means to me less informed about current affairs, so the only argument that can be had is a nationalist one.
Is this because people watch TV and read mainstream media less, more influence from social media and just everything is dumbed down?
For instance, how many people now watch the 9pm/10pm news?

kabayiri

Brown_Bear wrote: »

I agree that the British population is becoming more nationalist. I can't remember a time in my life when I've heard so many people come out with so much brainwashed nonsense. I thought the slow death of the tabloid press may have weakened this, but unfortunately not.

But sooner or later people will realise that 'sovereignty' doesn't pay the mortgage or put petrol in their car.

Where is the vision for UK going forward?

I think populism only really sets in when people feel like we are drifting.

Is this place just becoming a bargain basement free for all?

Thrugelmir

kabayiri wrote: »

Where is the vision for UK going forward?

Lies with the people. Doesn't require the elite to tell them what to do. Which in part is perhaps the problem lies. The establishment no longer represents the people. Clone politicians that tell rather than reflect.