Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

LHW99

purely because they thought nothing would change

IMO this was a factore for those voting remain too - if we stay in nothing will change it will all go on just as it is now. It won't. Whatever the choice made, things will change and there are only predictions and estimations of what that will mean because the rest of the world is also changing.

Takedap

kabayiri wrote: »

But...here's the key point.

Both the above rely on projections. I am entitled to interpret these as I see fit, and I do not have to apologize to anybody for my resulting vote. Until as such time voting is made illegal, I will continue to make my own decision.

I don't think that there's any doubt that some of the reasons for people voting in either way would have been thought through & the decision process was valid.


However, I also think that when we contribute to these forums, we are sometimes lulled into a false sense of security in that we believe that the general public has as much insight on the subject as us. This is a "semi-specialised" site that attracts like minded people. We're in a bit of a bubble here.



When you come to dealing with "the noisy table" in Wetherspoons etc. you are dealing with a different sort of thinking.


While it would be insane to think that all Leaver voters were thick or racist, it would be difficult to deny that certain parts of the Leave campaign deliberately targeted the less well educated, the racist elements & the more easily influenced.


Once you have that on your side, you have a good head start on the rest.

phillw

Takedap wrote: »

While it would be insane to think that all Leaver voters were thick or racist, it would be difficult to deny that certain parts of the Leave campaign deliberately targeted the less well educated, the racist elements & the more easily influenced.

I know someone university educated who voted to leave because of the £350 million a week and was disappointed that it turns out that it was a lie. So it's not even less educated people, there were no schools or universities offering courses in brexit voting. If you've never been conned by someone out of something worthwhile with vague promises that evaporate and then when you complain then you're told you made the decision so there is nothing they can do, then you're probably not experienced enough.

There certainly were a vast number of people who lapped up the anti EU rhetoric because "someone was finally sticking it to the foreigners", those people won't realise that EU membership was worthwhile to begin with. They weren't all like that, but enough of them are.

LHW99 wrote: »

IMO this was a factore for those voting remain too - if we stay in nothing will change it will all go on just as it is now. It won't. Whatever the choice made, things will change and there are only predictions and estimations of what that will mean because the rest of the world is also changing.

Right, voting for remain was clearly not that everything would stay the same forever as things have changed constantly during our EU membership.

The people who voted to leave the EU when their problems weren't even caused by the EU are unlikely to get any benefit from leaving the EU, I have no idea why they thought it would.

I agree that it's only predictions and those can be difficult to accurately predict, but in terms of trends it's quite easy to see that trade deals are easier when you're part of a big negotiating group & you can only be part of that if you agree to do the right thing and abide by the same rules.

We can trade under WTO terms, but there are still rules that are imposed upon us which will govern just how we set our import rates. There is no way we could set a rate of 0% for food for example.

kabayiri

Takedap wrote: »

...
While it would be insane to think that all Leaver voters were thick or racist, it would be difficult to deny that certain parts of the Leave campaign deliberately targeted the less well educated, the racist elements & the more easily influenced.


Once you have that on your side, you have a good head start on the rest.

I would have thought that true racists are more likely to favour the EU.

Last time I visited Poland I was reminded that it is now 97% ethnically based. If there is ever a place where "white Christians rule" it is Poland.

Why would a racist give up that to vote to join up with the RoW, which is much more mixed?

I would suggest that the more realistic argument, which wasn't openly expressed during the referendum, is that many people fear losing valuable work income to newcomers.

That is protectionism, not racism. It is of no consolation where the competitor comes from.

You get increased protectionism during times of change, set against a backdrop of austerity. It isn't the voters fault as to the poor timing of the referendum!

Tromking

phillw wrote: »

More project fear, when will you stop? Using base tribal instincts to manipulate people is abhorrent & will ruin this country.

I’m not trying to manipulate anyone, just proffering my opinion on a rather low key forum.
There’s nothing particularly tribal about not wanting your country to be potentially subsumed by a soon-to-be supranational entity.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

Sorry what are you talking about?

Someone mentioned the four reasons why people voted to leave the EU and the fee was one of them. I pointed out that it was a poor reason.

You seem to agree with me. Don't worry, we all understand the exact reason why YOU voted to leave.

(

More project fear, when will you stop? Using base tribal instincts to manipulate people is abhorrent & will ruin this country.

It was me who pointed out what I though were the main reasons for people voting to leave and you missed the point I was making entirely, which was a compromise would involve the lose of some of them not all. As far as I can see both sides are not willing to move an inch, Mays deal being a prime example with leave supporters regecting it and remain supporters regecting it.

Moe_The_Bartender

Funny how those who claim that leavers are xenophobes and racists are desperate to remain in a club for whites only.

Takedap

kabayiri wrote: »

I would have thought that true racists are more likely to favour the EU.

Last time I visited Poland I was reminded that it is now 97% ethnically based. If there is ever a place where "white Christians rule" it is Poland.

Why would a racist give up that to vote to join up with the RoW, which is much more mixed?

I would suggest that the more realistic argument, which wasn't openly expressed during the referendum, is that many people fear losing valuable work income to newcomers.

That is protectionism, not racism. It is of no consolation where the competitor comes from.

You get increased protectionism during times of change, set against a backdrop of austerity. It isn't the voters fault as to the poor timing of the referendum!

Seroiusly?? You seem to be talking about a "thinking man's racist"



I'm on about the genuine knuckle draggers who believe that anyone who isn't English shouldn't be here & the ones who truly believe that all Muslims are rapists & terrorists.


How many Tommy Robinson supporters do you think voted to remain because they EU backs up their extremist views?

Takedap

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

Funny how those who claim that leavers are xenophobes and racists are desperate to remain in a club for whites only.

You seem to be saying that if you are not white then you can't be a true European?

Brown_Bear

kabayiri wrote: »

I would have thought that true racists are more likely to favour the EU.

Last time I visited Poland I was reminded that it is now 97% ethnically based. If there is ever a place where "white Christians rule" it is Poland.

Why would a racist give up that to vote to join up with the RoW, which is much more mixed?

I would suggest that the more realistic argument, which wasn't openly expressed during the referendum, is that many people fear losing valuable work income to newcomers.

That is protectionism, not racism. It is of no consolation where the competitor comes from.

You get increased protectionism during times of change, set against a backdrop of austerity. It isn't the voters fault as to the poor timing of the referendum!

I agree with what you say.
But if the workers think that the govt will allow labour supply to tighten and wages to increase - they're wrong.
The govt will do what they did post WW2 - invite workers from the Commonwealth / RoW.

A slight change to the immigration rules and boom - plenty of workers for the Tory Party donors to employ and Tory voting landlords to house etc.