Do you run Linux - if not why?

that

Farmer_Johnson wrote: »

I run iOS, and have no idea how or why I’d want a different system.

My frends wife if an Apple person. She attended uni to do her masters in architecture, she wanted and got the top of the range Mac. literally a week after the course started they had to buy software and there was no mac version for a modelling program - windows only, so cost him a windows laptop too.

industry wise, depending on licencing, for a windows web server you pay a minimum of $500 per license for a server and a thousand+ servers later it is a lot of money. Go the linux route an it is free

Linux is possibly more stable, can handle a higher network connection throughput (not sure if that is bandwidth or number of connection?)

Linux does not restrict you. You pay a minumum of $500 for windows server and that server has limitations, but by paying $6155 those restrictions are removed, thought it is still the same software. We are also talking 6+million vs free.

Add on a lamp stack for Linux and it is $0. On windows the same equivalent stack is also $0 but is reported as unstable, so you add on sql server which varies from $931 to $14256 per CORE, not cpu, and then in may situations these still may need client access licenses extra

that

onomatopoeia99 wrote: »

They are selling you a turnkey solution that is an application running on hardware with a linux OS (inferred as you state you are entirely Windows based, so if someone buys an application running on linux, the hardware and OS needs to come with it), and they only support the application, not the rest of the solution they sold you?

Hmm. Wouldn't want to deal with them.

We often do not know about the product until after it had been purchased and is being installed, plus we have no say.

That can happen with an application on any platform, if the source code of a Windows application had vanished, support would be challenging.

Windows being so common, we can often deal with os issues, but for a small team learning the quirks of an unfamiliar os when up to ones neck in poo is not a good place to be. It tends to be the small developer using Linux who is a programmer but no clue about systems, just profit margins.

We also get that email were it says after a year "the supplier still supports the application, but no longer supports the OS"

For us this seems to happen a fair amount on linux, much more than windows. Being free, easy to install, and may come with a free sql product, is a big advantage over MS for the developer.

I'm still supporting a product we stopped developing in 2003 after 16 years in the market and removed from sale to new clients in 2004. Most of our internal support programs for it only run on the DOS kernel, so I have a machine with Windows 98 by my left foot that I have to fire up from time to time.

We also had some dos apps may years ago that did not work on nt4 or XP, bought dos emulator (think it cost £100) and it worked very well on it, but cant remember the name

If I get run over by a bus, support will end. No-one else knows anything about it, I'm the only one of the original developers left. We've been telling people for 15 years they need to port to something else, but they don't. When I turn off the lights, there will be complaints, but they can;t say they weren't warned, repeatedly, for over a decade.

Yes, people do expect the software to run forever. We the IT dept are unwanted, but a necessary third party. Not part of the core business, but needed. We get an email saying 'xxx is no longer supported' which often mean it is your baby now. In fairness at least our team does not get to support the application

letsbehonest

I use Linux Mint and Win 7 in a duel boot on my laptop, there is nothing complicated about Mint in fact I am now using it more than Windows one good point is that you don't need anti virus software with it.

movilogo

Farmer_Johnson wrote: »

I run iOS, and have no idea how or why I’d want a different system.

Then you are already running Linux and paid a big price for it too

S0litaire

*Puts down the "Jumbo deluxe mega-size" tub of popcorn*
*Takes a calming deep breath*...

OK as far as i can see their are 3 reasons why people don't use Linux day-to-day.

1) exposure,
Linux is not as widely advertised/publicized to the general public as Windows or Apple OS's are. (when was the last time you saw an TV advert for a Linux OS?)
*Note*
People in general don't associate Google's "Android OS" with Linux.

2) Hand-holding,
Windows and Apple Mac OS's tend to hold the users hand a lot more when doing behind the scenes tasks and general functioning. With Linux their is a lot less of this (but it's changing daily and becoming more hand-holding user friendly) So it looks more complicated than it needs to be (saying that their are a lot of users who don't like the "hand-holding" help being brought in to Linux distributions these days. they seem to think it reduced the customization options of the platform which is correct to some degree.)

3) Ecosystem buy-in,
It's Microsoft and Apple (and Adobe to some extent!) that want to lock you into their own brand of products.
If you're into media work like Video/Photograph editing you tend to go for a Mac.
But for games and "productivity" you tend to go for Windows.
Each try to keep you locked to their own brand of hardware or Software and due to the cost investment it's hard to "ditch" those products and learn another system even though it's initially generally cheaper. But in the long run the IT costs tend to balance out. The initial software for Linux is free but you pay a bit more for ongoing support. With Windows the initial outlay is expensive but it's cheaper for ongoing support.


As someone, in IT support, who's been 99% Linux only for the past 10+ years I can see why it looks hard to use Linux.
My windows PC has not been powered on since around August so i missed that whole "Nuking your My Documents" and the other "monthly update cycle" updates that tended to kill the Desktop in the last half of this year


Biggest issue with my Linux desktop in the last 6 months was being away for 10 days and come back (yesterday!) to a failed 3Tb hard drive (It stored my Movie/TV library) very annoying but not impact the running of my system much.

Merry Christmas

esuhl

S0litaire wrote: »

3) Ecosystem buy-in

MS Office. Games. The End. (for many people)

S0litaire wrote: »

2) Hand-holding,
Windows and Apple Mac OS's tend to hold the users hand a lot more when doing behind the scenes tasks and general functioning.

I think that's probably the biggest shock to newbies who don't understand the advantages of GNU/Linux. Microsoft and Apple OSes are developed by single companies, who are motivated by generating profit. These OSes need to be "easy to use" to have mass-market appeal in order to sell.

Apple maintains a dictatorial rein over OS development -- even preventing non-Apple browser engines(!), and they support a very limited range of hardware. So testing is simpler and more rigorous. There may be little "choice" in how you use the OS, but if it does what you want then it's very stable and easy-to-use.

Microsoft has better market penetration and a more lax approach, so there's a huuuuge choice of software and hardware. But you still have little control over the OS, and it's less stable and more vulnerable to malware.

GNU/Linux is different. It isn't intended to appeal to the mass-market. It's designed to be conceptually "elegant" system that is easy-to-use for computer scientists and system administrators. You can choose which version of the kernel to use, which bootloader, which shell, which components to install, the window manager and desktop environment, whether or not to use systemd, etc. The possibilities are endless. For the ultimate in control you could customise the kernel and compile the OS from source. It's a control-freak's paradise!

S0litaire wrote: »

1) exposure

Yep -- GNU/Linux developers don't care about you (or me). They're writing software because it does what they want it to do, and tend to assume a basic technical knowledge, which is why it can be a bit of a learning curve for newbies.

It's not in anyone's interest to attract people to using Linux at home. If you don't like it, don't use it. No one really cares. :-/

S0litaire wrote: »

...their are a lot of users who don't like the "hand-holding" help being brought in to Linux distributions these days. they seem to think it reduced the customization options of the platform which is correct to some degree.

Yes -- I don't like the "hand-holding" distros (like Ubuntu, Mint, etc.), but not because they reduce customisation options. That would actually be a great trade-off!

The problem I have is that the "user friendliness" just isn't that good. Fancy GUI wizards and apps look easy-to-use... but I often find that they're buggy and conceal what's happening from the user, making them hard to troubleshoot. What's happening behind the scenes is often a mess.

I think a lot of people try one or two "user friendly" distros, don't understand how they work, and think that anything Linux is rubbish and over-complicated. But there are hundreds of distros out there, each with a different philosophy and attracting a different kind of user base.


Appy Chrishtsmasss *hic*

debitcardmayhem

Sol

1) Exposure - Where can you buy nay where do the salespeople promote it (of course I am ignoring Chromebooks/iOS Tablets)

2) Handholding ? When was the last time most Computer Users needed to hold hands to cross the road (well ignoring Rome). If it works then you don't need hand holding. But of course many people come here for such , and it is not so friendly on Linux Forums

3) Buy In . Yep I bought Windows 7 pro when I had the chance to buy at half price, and have bought naked machines since to use dual-boot *ux / Windoze where I can choose.



I prefer Fedora , but don't need the MS WinX ecosystem , save for keeping SWMBO happy, btw I have to support her iPad/android phone too


I wish you and all(most) forum conrtibutors a Happy New Year _party_ _party_

esuhl

debitcardmayhem wrote: »

2) Handholding ? When was the last time most Computer Users needed to hold hands to cross the road (well ignoring Rome). If it works then you don't need hand holding.

Users shouldn't need any hand-holding. But system administrators might, especially if they don't understand the underlying principles of the system they're trying to administer. :-/

debitcardmayhem wrote: »

But of course many people come here for such , and it is not so friendly on Linux Forum

Using GNU/Linux on the desktop requires at least some investment of time and effort to understand the basics and how to identify/diagnose an issue.

Helpers on Linux forums are mostly trying to identify usage cases and bugs. They're not so inclined to help if (they think) you just haven't read the documentation or already tried to fix the problem yourself.:-/ Harsh but fair...?

cellblockH

esuhl wrote: »

Users shouldn't need any hand-holding. But system administrators might, especially if they don't understand the underlying principles of the system they're trying to administer. :-/



Using GNU/Linux on the desktop requires at least some investment of time and effort to understand the basics and how to identify/diagnose an issue.

Helpers on Linux forums are mostly trying to identify usage cases and bugs. They're not so inclined to help if (they think) you just haven't read the documentation or already tried to fix the problem yourself.:-/ Harsh but fair...?

The problem is what do you do when you are really stuck with 2000 servers, and you have no idea of the problem's cause? Our answer it to purchase Microsoft support hours because we can turn to them is shtf.

We had a problem where certain servers had trouble processing data, and some people could not log on. We could not find the problem. Also a Conficker type virus was active around the world in those months, and could this be attacking our system, or certain parts?

We ruled out Conficker and but the servers looked fine to us, but they still had this issue?

It turned out the cause was corrupt RID packets from one domain controller (thanks to MS). This corruption was only one way. It turned out not to be the server, but was a Cisco switch receiving data ok, but corrupting it on the way out, but only through one port to a DC


If we were on linux. being such a unique small fault would we have found it? At home is easy, as there is no real infrastructure, but in a big org?

psychic_teabag

cellblockH wrote: »

The problem is what do you do when you are really stuck with 2000 servers, and you have no idea of the problem's cause? Our answer it to purchase Microsoft support hours because we can turn to them is shtf.
...
If we were on linux. being such a unique small fault would we have found it? At home is easy, as there is no real infrastructure, but in a big org?

You can buy support hours for linux too. Various organisations sell it - it's one way they can make money to pay for development.