What vehicles can be driven on the road just on a car driving licence?

Andy_L

Scrapit wrote: »

But not if doing for work as he falls foul of the law, HSAWA, and the regulations (basically the law without being an act) PUWER, so again, the answer to his question is : no, you can't legally drive it.

Do you have a link? Thy exemptions for driving minibuses on a car licence specificly exclude using it for work, I haven't seen anything similar for diggers or plant

Scrapit

Andy_L wrote: »

Do you have a link? Thy exemptions for driving minibuses on a car licence specificly exclude using it for work, I haven't seen anything similar for diggers or plant

Link to what? The HSAWA states that the employees and employeer are responsible for health and safety. In this case the employee is acutely aware they haven't had suitable training for the plant. PUWER regs detail how employers should provide training. None of that is in place.

Insert_Nut

So once again this is the problem we have. Two sets of people saying two different things and both sides sure they're right.

And it's supposed to be crystal clear? Well it is I suppose - to the side that thinks they're right. At the end of the day my employer will quote everything that says I can drive it and none of what says I can't, like some in this thread are doing - because they want me to drive it.

Me personally, I would like to drive it as it would save a whole load of earache, however not at the risk of being illegal and when we get to the bottom of it then we need to find out whether that is the case or not with all sides taken into consideration and not just cherry picking what suits.

Car_54 wrote: »

So far as driving on the road is concerned, he has had training, and has a licence to prove it.

What training have I had though?

I've had training on a fork lift truck and I'm sure there'll be a certificate of sorts in my file for this.

However for this actual machine in question, the JCB, to my knowledge I've had no official training other than ok let's have a quick see if you know the controls, right yeah that'll do, on you go. I've driven these things for over 10 years on that 'training' alone. If that kind of training is acceptable then yeah I'm fully trained. If I need to be trained by someone official under test conditions and be told I have a certificate at the end of it then to the best of my knowledge I've not had that.

Though I do have a driving licence as stated on post number 1.

Car_54

Insert_Nut wrote: »

What training have I had though?

For driving the JCB on public roads, you have evidently had enough training to pass your driving test.

In the eyes of the law, passing your test in a small car makes you fit to drive JCBs, tractors, road rollers etc. The fact that you’ve been doing so for 10 years suggests it’s right.

Using the JCB to dig holes etc. is a different kettle of fish.

Scrapit

Car_54 wrote: »

For driving the JCB on public roads, you have evidently had enough training to pass your driving test.

In the eyes of the law, passing your test in a small car makes you fit to drive JCBs, tractors, road rollers etc. The fact that you’ve been doing so for 10 years suggests it’s right.

Using the JCB to dig holes etc. is a different kettle of fish.

The law? Only the rta. HSAWA takes precedence as it is all encompassing. The whole time he is driving and earning he is doing wrong. No matter where.
Op have you got a brown health and safety poster at your workplace, it should have contact details on for advice. Of course if you haven't the firm are breaking the law...
Anyway, for clarity ring the she without giving any more detail than you have here and you'll get a conclusive answer. And probably a request for more details along the lines of a company name.

MR_M_P

I'm pretty sure you can drive a tele handler with a car license once you are 21, I'm not aware of any legal requirements to have a quaficacition in driving the machine off road, however in the event of any incident your employer would have to prove you had been trained

Andy_L

Insert_Nut wrote: »

So once again this is the problem we have. Two sets of people saying two different things and both sides sure they're right.

And it's supposed to be crystal clear? Well it is I suppose - to the side that thinks they're right. At the end of the day my employer will quote everything that says I can drive it and none of what says I can't, like some in this thread are doing - because they want me to drive it.

Me personally, I would like to drive it as it would save a whole load of earache, however not at the risk of being illegal and when we get to the bottom of it then we need to find out whether that is the case or not with all sides taken into consideration and not just cherry picking what suits.



What training have I had though?

I've had training on a fork lift truck and I'm sure there'll be a certificate of sorts in my file for this.

However for this actual machine in question, the JCB, to my knowledge I've had no official training other than ok let's have a quick see if you know the controls, right yeah that'll do, on you go. I've driven these things for over 10 years on that 'training' alone. If that kind of training is acceptable then yeah I'm fully trained. If I need to be trained by someone official under test conditions and be told I have a certificate at the end of it then to the best of my knowledge I've not had that.

Though I do have a driving licence as stated on post number 1.

There are 2 different questions being conflated which, combined with the fact your boss seems a bit of a cowboy, are confusing the issue

In answer to your OP, ca you drive a digger on the road with a car licence the answer is yes, however not for the reasons you boss said ("its a tractor") but because there are specific laws for diggers etc

Scrapit has, late in the day, bought in the complications of the various H&S acts which, drastically simplifying it, require

a. work activities to be risk assessed and, if the risk is high, mitigation measures to be put in place and
b. People to be competent do things, which can be by a suitable mix of training, qualification and experience.

Unfortunately the law rarely defines what that mix is or the precise level of risk and mitigation needed so businesses tend to default to formal qualifications and adherence to industry codes of practice

Scrapit's view, AIUI, is that the risk of you driving the JCB down the road is so high that having the appropriate driving licence,5 min familiration and (presuemably) and brief practice with it off site isn't enough risk mitigation so you and your boss are in breach of H&S legislation. However that's a separate offence to driving without a licence and thus wont , eg, get you points

Insert_Nut

Andy_L wrote: »

There are 2 different questions being conflated which are confusing the issue

I would agree and it's totally bamboozling me.


I wish to know if I can drive from A to B using the public highway.
I think others are then digging (no pun intended) deeper and getting in to the realms of whether I am even ok to operate at A or B once I am off the public highway. I'm not here to ask about that. If I can't operate (use the machine for what it is designed for - shovelling building materials) at B then surely I can't operate at A though I've been doing it for over 10 years. That's not what I'm here for though.


I'm here to see whether I can simply travel from A to B. No use of the controls whilst on the public highway, just simply driving along the road.

And probably a request for more details along the lines of a company name

To my knowledge there is no brown poster you mention, although there may be one somewhere. I just don't know about it.


And for the quote above, I've written off and asked as anonymously as I possibly can as I don't want to make life difficult for myself. Obviously I needed to provide my name and address as well as driver licence number but that was it. I didn't identify my employer by name or location at all.

Scrapit

Insert_Nut wrote: »

I would agree and it's totally bamboozling me.


I wish to know if I can drive from A to B using the public highway.
I think others are then digging (no pun intended) deeper and getting in to the realms of whether I am even ok to operate at A or B once I am off the public highway. I'm not here to ask about that. If I can't operate (use the machine for what it is designed for - shovelling building materials) at B then surely I can't operate at A though I've been doing it for over 10 years. That's not what I'm here for though.


I'm here to see whether I can simply travel from A to B. No use of the controls whilst on the public highway, just simply driving along the road.


To my knowledge there is no brown poster you mention, although there may be one somewhere. I just don't know about it.


And for the quote above, I've written off and asked as anonymously as I possibly can as I don't want to make life difficult for myself. Obviously I needed to provide my name and address as well as driver licence number but that was it. I didn't identify my employer by name or location at all.

Written? You pay tax? The firm have your national insurance details? Why didn't you ring em?

Insert_Nut

Scrapit wrote: »

Written? You pay tax? The firm have your national insurance details? Why didn't you ring em?

What does me paying tax have to do with anything? Sorry but that went right over my head. And obviously the company I work for have my NI details.


Anyway, as for why I didn't call them then what good would that do? My employer plays the heavy hand. Let's say for arguments sake that the response comes back that I can't drive it on the road and my employer tomorrow says I'm to take it down there. How do you figure it's going to go when I say I was told on the phone I can't do it?


It's all well & good you (not necessarily you but anyone who doesn't work for this company) saying that it's on the employer to prove I can and not for me to prove I can't and maybe or maybe not that's how it's supposed to be, I genuinely don't know. I'm no expert in law, far from it.
But that's not how it works in this real world (as in the one I work in). Like I said, the employer will play the heavy hand, they start getting aggressive, arms thrown up in the air & then comes all the shouting and I really can't be bothered with it, I don't go to work for that nonsense. They'll push that I can drive it & they'll have no interest in me saying I can't. They've decided I can and in their eyes that's final.


Now if I get a response in writing and it says I can then wonderful, we can go ahead without all this hassle. Saves a lot of headache.
However if I get a response in writing that says I can't and explains the reason why then I can show them this letter and say look, it's not me being difficult but these guys say I can't legally do it. That's the reason I've done it in writing.


I would expect the company I work for to protect themselves at all times. I would expect any company to do that. Equally a company, any company, should expect their employees to wish to protect themselves at all times also, which is all I'm looking at doing - seeing if I'm good to go or not.


The fact that you guys are on here quoting this literature saying I can and that literature saying I can't just proves that it's not so crystal clear after all. If it was a simple case of this link says you can/can't and that's the end of it then great, but because so much seems to contradict so much that's why I've had to write to an official body.