What vehicles can be driven on the road just on a car driving licence?

Scrapit

Insert_Nut wrote: »

How would it work? Think about it. Everyone is ok about driving it but one employee has just questioned it & this employee is the only one to do so. 5 minutes later the HSE are all over the place asking about this machine.


My boss isn't stupid. Doesn't take a genius to work out that the HSE will be there because of me.


Even if everyone had complained and the HSE were there, I'd still be labelled as 'the one' simply due to once-upon-a-time that's the sort of thing I'd do - challenge everything & go heavy handed. It got my nowhere but poor treatment and I was miserable at work.


Now things have changed. I try my best to not get involved like that any more, just get on and do my job and overall things have improved massively in terms of the way I am treated. It's now an enjoyable place to work overall.




Well I clearly am taking advice. I've been advised about contacting companies & that's what I'm trying to do and since the DVLA has 101 departments that's why I came here this morning to ask for clarification on the address of the correct department, because I'm following the advice given.




If it was so clear then why are you and Andy disagreeing? If it's clear then there should be no dispute?!


See to me your disagreement is like Andy is my boss and you are me. Who's right? I don't know. You can't both be right although you both are sure that you're the one who's right.


My boss will be as convincing as you two are. I can't do that. If I'm not sure then I'm not sure, I can't sit there & bullshhhh someone that I know what I'm talking about if I know I don't.


The other side is that sure people can be wrong too. Just because someone is sure they're right doesn't mean they are.


No offence, the help is very much appreciated. I'd just like to contact an official body to get word on what the situation is. Just that the DVLA has so many offices.

Its you that's not getting it. The hse turn up. They then go through your gaffers practices. They ain't gonna turn up and say "we have had a report about driving this machine". They will want to see that your firm is working safely using the plant and everything else. You are making it your problem when it's not. Have you got a union? They'd help you no end.

Insert_Nut

No i think it's you not getting it. Ok i'll admit i don't know which one of you is correct because some are saying A while others are saying B & you're all saying you're right yet by default you can't ALL be right - so someone is wrong, it's just a case if who.


So i'll admit to that no problem. But the idea that my employer will not start thinking why are the HSE here, will not then think it must be one of these lot & then think - it'll be that one there since he's the one who's done stuff like this in the past and he's just had a hissy fit over this machine, the idea he'll just accept the HSE turning up is crazy. He's naturally a paranoid/suspicious person. I guarantee you right now the finger will be pointed at me and if you think he needs proof to let me know how unhappy he is about it then think again. He'll do it because he wants to. That's how it works, rightly or wrongly. In your world your employer may need proof to start going at employees but in mine ours just needs suspicion, rightly or wrongly, that's just the way it is I'm afraid.


Anyway i'll get back on the DVLA site and find the address i think is best suited then. Thank you for your help so far.


If i get an answer then i'll post back.

Insert_Nut

Rover_Driver wrote: »

Check the DVLA's leaflet INF52 - 'Large vehicles you can drive using your car or lorry licence'. It mentions the restriction about driving your type of vehicle on a 'B' licence.

If you mean page 3 of that leaflet then i read that

Agricultural motor vehicles which are used off the road and are not tractors (for example, crop sprayers and combine harvesters).

says that i can drive it and that my boss is correct. Or at least that's the way i understand it.


That's the issue here - it may be clear to some but it's down to how someone understands what they're reading and they may not understand it correctly.

Rover_Driver

Insert_Nut wrote: »

If you mean page 3 of that leaflet then i read that
says that i can drive it and that my boss is correct. Or at least that's the way i understand it.

No, it is not an off road agricultural vehicle - it is (also from page 3) - a digging machine (vehicle with digging buckets or shovels) which travel on a public road only for the purpose of going to or from a site where they are used for digging or shovelling work.
So it cannot be driven on the road by a 'B' licence holder for shovelling work.

Andy_L

Who'd of believed it, the internet contradicts itself

Scrapit's #30 cut & paste (possibly from here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/agricultural-vehicle-licences-and-fuel ?) allows you to drive "a number of large agricultural vehicles" (my bold) and then gives a list which includes engineering plant & diggers (separatly, possibly for construction & use reasons?)

Whilst Rover Driver's #48 leaflet
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/561552/inf52-large-vehicles-you-can-drive-using-your-car-or-lorry-licence.pdf

says pretty much the same thing but excludes the "large agricultural vehicles" caveat.

They then both suffer from being vague on whether the "goods vehicle" bullet points on distance, time & land apply to all goods vehicles or just those that aren't specifically mentioned elsewhere in the list.

I'd need to see the primary legislation to offer an opinion beyond "its vague if you can drive it or not". I suspect the best people to speak to would be your firms insurers.

Andy_L

Andy_L wrote: »

I'd need to see the primary legislation

Here it is

The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/2864/regulation/51/made

"For the purposes of this Part of these Regulations, an exempted goods vehicle is a vehicle falling within any of the following classes—"

so engineering plant is exempt
diggers are exempt

Something like a horsebox (~7t weight) is exempt providing Farmer Palmer is only driving it between 2 of his own fields <1.5km away OR doing less than 9.7km a week

Rover_Driver

If the JCB is considered to be engineering plant as defined in s.3 (2) the C & U regs. 1986, it could be exempt.
The definition of, and restriction of, 'diggers' in that act is the same as 'Digging Machine' in the DVLA leaflet.

Insert_Nut

What you've got is a guy sitting to the side who is unsure of what is right and what isn't because he reads one piece that suggests A-ok followed by another piece which suggests don't do it.


Then you have on the main stage 3 guys saying a mixture of go ahead it's legal and hold your horses you can't do it.


Any wonder the guy to the side is confused as all hell?


The fact you guys are disagreeing says to me that I can pull any one of those links & leaflets and my employer will pull another. Basically he'll play the role of Andy L for example and i'll play the role of Scrapit.


Equally a phone call to the DVLA will be worth diddly squat as when my employer says show me why you can't do it, i'll have nothing.


Which is why I've written off to them today because at least i'll have something official. I just hope it's clear.


I know Scrapit says it's not on me to prove I can't it's on the employer to prove I can. It's easy to sit there & say that & you're possibly right.
You don't have to have the employer relentless in your ear telling you you can do it & making all these wild threats because they've worked themselves up.

Scrapit

Insert_Nut wrote: »

What you've got is a guy sitting to the side who is unsure of what is right and what isn't because he reads one piece that suggests A-ok followed by another piece which suggests don't do it.


Then you have on the main stage 3 guys saying a mixture of go ahead it's legal and hold your horses you can't do it.


Any wonder the guy to the side is confused as all hell?


The fact you guys are disagreeing says to me that I can pull any one of those links & leaflets and my employer will pull another. Basically he'll play the role of Andy L for example and i'll play the role of Scrapit.


Equally a phone call to the DVLA will be worth diddly squat as when my employer says show me why you can't do it, i'll have nothing.


Which is why I've written off to them today because at least i'll have something official. I just hope it's clear.


I know Scrapit says it's not on me to prove I can't it's on the employer to prove I can. It's easy to sit there & say that & you're possibly right.
You don't have to have the employer relentless in your ear telling you you can do it & making all these wild threats because they've worked themselves up.

To be clear, scrapit thinks your boss is dodgy and hopes he get shut down. Harsh, and I suspect you hope the opposite but at the end of the day it's dangerous. My real advice is look for a good job elsewhere.

Rover_Driver

Insert_Nut wrote: »

What you've got is a guy sitting to the side who is unsure of what is right and what isn't because he reads one piece that suggests A-ok followed by another piece which suggests don't do it.

You need to go to the relevant legislation, which can be complicated as some refers to definitions in other legislation, and check if your use of the JCB complies with them.

For the 'Digging Machine', it ends up at Sch.1, 4, (4), Vehicles Excise & Registration Act 1994 ' “digging machine” means a vehicle which is designed, constructed and used for the purpose of trench digging, or any kind of excavating or shovelling work, and which—
(a) is used on public roads only for that purpose or for the purpose of proceeding to and from the place where it is to be or has been used for that purpose, and
(b) when so proceeding does not carry any load except such as is necessary for its propulsion or equipment.


For the 'Engineering Plant', it is Reg.3, (2), The Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986. ' Movable Plant or Equipment being a motor vehicle or trailer specially designed and constructed for the special purposes of engineering operations, and which cannot, owing to the requirements of those purposes, comply with all the requirements of these Regulations and which is not constructed primarily to carry a load other than a load being either excavated materials raised from the ground by apparatus on the motor vehicle or trailer or materials which the vehicle or trailer is specially designed to treat while carried thereon'.