If there is a second referendum ...

BobQ

Am I the only one thinking that the Party workers who support Brexit have mainly gone away over Xmas and the New Year? Probably visiting their Dad's country estates......

Pj1981

First of all , i was not blaming foriegners for having fog lights on all the time, i was just ranting about many things and that was directed towards younger folk who somehow think its cool. I wouldnt say i was a perfect driver , but im sensible and would certainly notice fairly quickly if id mistakenly left them on. Now the NHS, when was the last time you had an eastern european writing you a prescription? It is almost always people who are clearly from outside the EU .Its simple, more people using the NHS means more stress on the service and an overall drop in standard.Has the funding ever been reduced?Not so long ago people were complaining because of people coming here just to use the NHS.Obviously more immigrants generates more taxes as we constantly hear, but we never hear the cons . Now we are swamped.All i was getting at was that it has got out of control.

Herzlos

The last consultant I saw was eastern European.

The solution to the NHS' problems are to fund it properly and staff it properly, both of which are easier with freedom of movement.

Theophile

BobQ wrote: »

Am I the only one thinking that the Party workers who support Brexit have mainly gone away over Xmas and the New Year? Probably visiting their Dad's country estates......

Poor Sajid Javid had to abandon his luxury South African safari to deal with a gammon induced 'crisis' of a few dozen expats in dinghies off the Kent coast.

Arklight

Pj1981 wrote: »

First of all , i was not blaming foriegners for having fog lights on all the time, i was just ranting about many things and that was directed towards younger folk who somehow think its cool. I wouldnt say i was a perfect driver , but im sensible and would certainly notice fairly quickly if id mistakenly left them on. Now the NHS, when was the last time you had an eastern european writing you a prescription? It is almost always people who are clearly from outside the EU .Its simple, more people using the NHS means more stress on the service and an overall drop in standard.Has the funding ever been reduced?Not so long ago people were complaining because of people coming here just to use the NHS.Obviously more immigrants generates more taxes as we constantly hear, but we never hear the cons . Now we are swamped.All i was getting at was that it has got out of control.

We are swamped. What evidence, actual evidence, is there for this febrile rhetoric? None.

Baseless right wing scaremongering.

Lungboy

Herzlos wrote: »

The last consultant I saw was eastern European.

The solution to the NHS' problems are to fund it properly and staff it properly, both of which are easier with freedom of movement.

Indeed, all the dentists I've seen in the past 10+ years have been eastern european too. It's hard enough getting a dentist as it is these days without losing loads.

kabayiri

BobQ wrote: »

FOM alone is not meant to solve the problems of the NHS. If the pay on offer is insufficient to attract skilled immigrants in sufficient numbers, or stop those you have leaving, you will still not fill the vacancies.
...

Listen to any pro-EU commentator, be it on talk radio or QT, and it won't be long before the sheer viability of the NHS is linked to being in the EU.

It's disingenuous to suggest that FOM is the only solution for providing skills for a national health service. The NHS has taken people from the commonwealth and elsewhere for a long time.

When 100K+ EU people arrive in the UK in one year, without a specific job to go to, then we can dismiss any idea that FOM is a fundamental to targeted recruitment.

Having said this, on a pragmatic level I could live with FOM if I believed we had a government willing to invest in infrastructure to meet the rising demand. But, we do not, and I doubt we ever will. We are left with throttling demand.

andrewf75

Pj1981 wrote: »

.Its simple, more people using the NHS means more stress on the service and an overall drop in standard.Has the funding ever been reduced?Not so long ago people were complaining because of people coming here just to use the NHS.Obviously more immigrants generates more taxes as we constantly hear, but we never hear the cons . Now we are swamped.All i was getting at was that it has got out of control.

Haven’t you contradicted yourself? If immigrants contribute more taxes per capita, then funding should have increased in line with that.

And what do you mean we never hear the cons? We’ve heard nothing but cons about immigration. That’s why Brexit is happening!

I do think immigration levels have been too high recently, but I don’t buy this commonly held view of immigration putting pressure on services. It makes no sense if immigrants contribute more per capita. The problem is that funding hasn’t kept pace because to put it simplistically the rich and corporation don’t pay enough tax. This country makes a lot of money, but too much is in private hands and not spent on infrastructure.

If one good thing can come from Brexit, it will be the realisation that this country’s problems are entirely of our own making, not the fault of the EU or immigrants.

phillw

andrewf75 wrote: »

If one good thing can come from Brexit, it will be the realisation that this country’s problems are entirely of our own making, not the fault of the EU or immigrants.

That is not going to happen. The brexiters started on day one talking about the EU punishing us for leaving by not giving us everything we demand, pretending that negotiating can give us everything we want without having to give up something that we don't want to.

andrewf75

phillw wrote: »

That is not going to happen. The brexiters started on day one talking about the EU punishing us for leaving by not giving us everything we demand, pretending that negotiating can give us everything we want without having to give up something that we don't want to.

I agree, but I meant gradually in the longer term. Leave voters will continue to blame the EU - and remain voters will blame Brexit - for our problems for the next generation or so, but after that hopefully!