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If there is a second referendum ...

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  • movilogo
    movilogo Posts: 3,235 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Do people realise that the WTO tariff on some items is 45%?

    Do people realize that WTO tariff is below 1% on some items?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45112872
    Happiness is buying an item and then not checking its price after a month to discover it was reduced further.
  • LHW99
    LHW99 Posts: 5,233 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Do people realise how much inflation will go up by when most (especially lower paid - a lot of those who voted for this) are on incomes which are already not going up by inflation
    Wage increases 3 months to October 3.3%, CPI 12 month inflation October 2.4%
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46520876
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/consumerpriceinflation/october2018
  • andrewf75
    andrewf75 Posts: 10,424 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts
    In Italy all media say that the possibility of a second Brexit referendum are increasing.
    Is there something true or are all news to take audience on their tv channel/journal?
    And 52% of british people are for "remain"
    x-mas.gif

    The chances are definitely increasing yes.
    Most polls suggest that a majority now wants to remain, but its highly uncertain. One thing is for sure, it would be extremely close again. We are a deeply divided country.
  • OldMusicGuy
    OldMusicGuy Posts: 1,768 Forumite
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    The referendum delivered a non-constitutionally binding direction to Parliament to "leave the EU". There was no clear definition of what leave meant.

    We now appear to have three "leave" options emerging:

    1 Brexiteers: immediate "hard" exit on March 29th implementing WTO rules with trade agreements to be negotiated with the EU and other countries from day 1.

    2 May deal: phased "hard" exit involving 2 year transition period with EU in which we negotiate a free trade deal with them (subject to backstop and paying EU 39 billion). After the transition we can sign trade deals with other countries (nothing to stop us starting the negotiations after March 29 I assume).

    3 Labour: appears to be a softer Brexit. Appears they want closer to a Norway style arrangement with close alignment to the EU in some areas and staying in the customs union. They still say this is "leaving".

    As parliament cannot agree on how to Brexit, surely they need to go back to the people and get another mandate. But this time the mandate should be on the type of Brexit, not leave/remain. Thus a referendum offering the different types of Brexit but no remain option would be the way to go. Would that not allow a more informed debate on the pros and cons of different types of Brexit?

    I voted remain btw but am prepared to accept that staying in on today's terms is no longer a democratically viable option, even though I would still prefer to remain.
  • BLB53
    BLB53 Posts: 1,583 Forumite
    As parliament cannot agree on how to Brexit, surely they need to go back to the people and get another mandate. But this time the mandate should be on the type of Brexit, not leave/remain. Thus a referendum offering the different types of Brexit but no remain option would be the way to go. Would that not allow a more informed debate on the pros and cons of different types of Brexit?
    This sounds sensible and, as someone who voted leave, think it would be acceptable however I fear it would not get off the starting blocks. The people who have been pushing the hardest for ref2 are hardcore remainers and the only reason for their campaign is to reverse Brexit so they would insist on the 'remain' option being on the ballot.
  • lisyloo
    lisyloo Posts: 30,077 Forumite
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    Why shouldn't we have the option to remain now we know what the options are? Some might want to change their mind now it's clearer.
    A practical difficulty is that the options above split the leave vote, so ou can't have 3 leave options pluse 1 remain option.
  • Filo25
    Filo25 Posts: 2,139 Forumite
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    edited 12 December 2018 at 5:46PM
    lisyloo wrote: »
    Why shouldn't we have the option to remain now we know what the options are? Some might want to change their mind now it's clearer.
    A practical difficulty is that the options above split the leave vote, so ou can't have 3 leave options pluse 1 remain option.

    Single Transferrable vote system would resolve it (or just multiple rounds of voting)

    STV is already used for NI assembly elections and London mayorals (no doubt for many other elections as well).

    Basically rank your preferences in order, and the option with the lowest number of votes in each round is eliminated with their votes reallocated to their second choice preferences in the next round, you keep going, reducing the least popular option in each round until one option gets over 50%.
  • OldMusicGuy
    OldMusicGuy Posts: 1,768 Forumite
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    edited 12 December 2018 at 6:03PM
    lisyloo wrote: »
    Why shouldn't we have the option to remain now we know what the options are? Some might want to change their mind now it's clearer.
    IMO because we had that vote, and to sneak remain into the options does overturn the will of the majority who voted leave. Soft (Labour) versus harder options would really focus the debate. Both Labour and Tories said they were committed to leaving, and together they have a majority in Parliament.

    If we don't do that then I agree that STV is the way to go, but I still feel that anyone who voted leave has a perfect right to claim they were betrayed if we end up remaining on the current terms.

    I believe we can make any of these leave options work. There is a lot of scaremongering and childish overstatement on all sides of the argument. So as much as I would like to remain as is, I think we need to move on and forge a new relationship with Europe.

    If I'm brutally honest, I do think a Brexiteer Brexit will cause the most short term disruption and could endanger some industries (like lamb and beef, probably automotive), which is why I personally support May's deal (OK I am one of the few :rotfl:). But even with the hardest of Brexits we will get over it and adjust to the new reality in a few years. There are more important issues to address longer term.
  • Crashy_Time
    Crashy_Time Posts: 13,386 Forumite
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    Watching SKY etc. today it is obvious that the penny is dropping that we are heading out on "No Deal", the energy has definitely shifted against those who were parroting "People`s vote, people`s vote", some of them look very desperate and mildly unstable now TBH. One thing about May is that she has been resolute all along that trying to reverse the vote is something very bad for democracy, and to be resisted at all costs, a second ref. isn`t going to get off the ground, there are moments in time when these things can be sold to the public, and than the energy changes and moves on. Just ask the SNP, they know all about losing a ref. and then trying to erase reality.
  • Thrugelmir
    Thrugelmir Posts: 89,546 Forumite
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    Soft (Labour) versus harder options would really focus the debate.

    No one appears to agreed this approach with the EU though. FoM is a fundamental right attached to this option.
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