Excell parking..bw legal threat of court proceedings

The_Deep

if they failed POFA2012 and you can swear on oath that you were not the driver and the driver is unknown to you, then their case is likely to fail

I am puzzled, why should one swear on oath that the driver was unknown to you.

Terry78

beamerguy wrote: »

I think to include in the defence that you simply cannot remember 4 years ago as much as the court judges could not remember what happened in their car 4 years ago.

Why has Excel waited for 4 years to bring the claim well knowing that the defendant will have little or no knowledge of this let alone who was diving at the time.

You must create a doubt in the Judges mind about the credibility of the claim

I do not think that by naming the driver 4 years after the event would work .... other may disagree

Thank you for the input, i think you are right in that my line of defense should remain as you have pointed out above. That 4 years is way to excessive for me to be able to remember who the driver could possibly be.

A couple of points though, if i request all paperwork they have sent me under the SAR then do they have to provide this by law BEFORE any court action is filed for and taken further? And if they file for court action before this information is provided are they in breach of anything?

As to the POFA2012 my limited understanding as of this morning is that under this act the company can now hold the registered keeper liable although the keeper still has the right to name or not name the driver. If i cannot name the driver which under my defence this is the case given the incidents occurred 4 years ago, am i right in thinking i am now just looking for inconsistency and area's within all the paperwork that doesnt meet the POFA 2012 guidlines?
As at present i only have the lot of paperwork from BW legal which is the letter of claim, and i am assuming i need all the other paperwork they have sent dating right back to the original pictures of the car and initial notice, as all the paperwork will need checking against these guidelines.
If all paperwork has been binned over the years.... then whats stopping excel from doctoring any new requests for paperwork to meet guidlines??

Is my first move now to write back stating i wasnt the driver and requesr the SAR and nothing more in the way of checking if POFA2012 has been met as i cant fully do this until all paperwork has been sent to me. Do i request the SAR through bw legal as excel state any correspondence in relation to the debt sgould now be directed to bw legal?
And the after sedning the SAR request i do nothing until i hear back?

I dont understand the rebuttal thing?

Finally is there any other way i can upload the LOC so you guys can see it? Rather than Scanning in...i could just take photos of each paper and upload the images??

God this is stressful

Castle

Terry78 wrote: »

A couple of points though, if i request all paperwork they have sent me under the SAR then do they have to provide this by law BEFORE any court action is filed for and taken further? And if they file for court action before this information is provided are they in breach of anything?

The Data Protection Act/GDPR requirements are not connected to the court procedures but if they fail to respond within the 30 days then they are breach of the DPA/GDPR for which you could claim damages; (or in your case counterclaim).


The SAR always goes to the parking company.

Redx

Terry78 wrote: »

Thank you for the input, i think you are right in that my line of defense should remain as you have pointed out above. That 4 years is way to excessive for me to be able to remember who the driver could possibly be.

I agree, and although the driver may be known to you the keeper as a person, it could be one of many drivers so the actual driver on the date of each pcn may be unknown to you as keeper

A couple of points though, if i request all paperwork they have sent me under the SAR then do they have to provide this by law BEFORE any court action is filed for and taken further? And if they file for court action before this information is provided are they in breach of anything?

NO, they have to provide it within 30 days of the SAR request, under the new DPA which is the GDPR which came into force over 6 months ago. this doesnt mean they cannot instigate proceedings before then, hence why I said do it asap and put them on notice in order to try and prevent this from happening

As to the POFA2012 my limited understanding as of this morning is that under this act the company can now hold the registered keeper liable although the keeper still has the right to name or not name the driver. If i cannot name the driver which under my defence this is the case given the incidents occurred 4 years ago, am i right in thinking i am now just looking for inconsistency and area's within all the paperwork that doesnt meet the POFA 2012 guidlines?
As at present i only have the lot of paperwork from BW legal which is the letter of claim, and i am assuming i need all the other paperwork they have sent dating right back to the original pictures of the car and initial notice, as all the paperwork will need checking against these guidelines.

CORRECT - your defence would be that they failed POFA2012 and as you are the keeper and not the driver you have no liability in law and POFA2012 was not followed so they cannot use that law to prove you are liable

If all paperwork has been binned over the years.... then whats stopping excel from doctoring any new requests for paperwork to meet guidlines??

if they do this then there are GDPR issues and also its fraud or perjury and you would be putting them to strict proof and reporting them for any such fraud or other legal issues (I am not a lawyer but they could be in serious trouble if they did this, ie:- perverting the course of justice)

Is my first move now to write back stating i wasnt the driver and requesr the SAR and nothing more in the way of checking if POFA2012 has been met as i cant fully do this until all paperwork has been sent to me.

YES

Do i request the SAR through bw legal as excel state any correspondence in relation to the debt sHould now be directed to bw legal?

YOU CAN DO , SO WHY NOT DO BOTH ? EXCEL have a legal obligation as the claimant to do this work if a SAR is issued , so make them both do something for a change, but IGNORE what excel said and send their DPO the SAR regardless , they have a legal responsibility to respond within 30 days, irrespective of what some clerk says in their general office

And the after sending the SAR request i do nothing until i hear back?

more or less, but do the rebuttal as well , to B W LEGAL


I dont understand the rebuttal thing?

They are saying that you owe their client money , you are denying this , so you are in denial and the rebuttal is the legal definition of that denial

B W LEGAL - Mr Terry78 - you as the driver owe our client £500

Terry78 - No I do not, I am the keeper not the driver and this has nothing to do with me because POFA2012 does not apply to these invoices you have sent me due to your failures under that law


but this is done in the form of a legal denial (not what I said above) so read other legal rebuttals (denials of any debts) to B W LEGAL posted on here this year and adapt one accordingly, making it fit your facts, there are plenty of examples and its copy and paste and 5 minutes work for you

Finally is there any other way i can upload the LOC so you guys can see it? Rather than Scanning in...i could just take photos of each paper and upload the images??

YES THERE IS - take pictures and host them on the website tinypic

then copy the URL link to those pictures in your reply

we can then click on those links and see those pictures

its that simple

you seem to have a pretty good understanding of this in your reply above

I have added some comments in red for you

bear in mind that I am not a lawyer nor do I have any legal training so sometimes I may not get the legalese exactly right, but I know what I am inferring and most people wouldnt be pedantic enough to read 2000 words that I write and then pick up on just one slight inconsistency , clearly pedantrry is not dead as can be observed in some replies in this thread which is a hazard of trying to help you

ie:- you may know a lot of people who drive the vehicle, yet not know who drove on the day, if say two or three people who drive the vehicle went out in it on those days, who is to say who actually drove the vehicle, you may not have even be in this country at the time

for example, if my vehicle had a pcn from Excel 4 years ago at the Peel Centre in Stockport , how would I now know if it was myself or my wife that drove on that day ? how would I know it wasnt a driver for EVANS HALSHAW that drove that day as my vehicle was in for service and a mechanic used it to go to the nearby KFC and buy his dinner ? - How do I know it wasnt the courtesy car driver who left that with me , picked up my vehicle and drove it to the garage that morning and back from there in the afternoon (and bought his breakfast or late lunch from KFC or F&B on his journey) whilst we both stayed at home that day



hence I may know or have met the driver themselves as a person, but NOT KNOW who actually drove the vehicle that day and went and parked on the Peel Centre (but I may know that it wasnt me or my wife because we were both at home that day)

yet EXCEL and B W LEGAL think that you as RK or as keeper should carry the can - so you are rebutting those allegations by saying , I OWE YOU NOTHING , PROVE IT , PROVE I WAS DRIVING , PROVE THAT POFA2010 APPLIES TO ME AS KEEPER

otherwise FRO and multiply


capiche ? (lol)

Umkomaas

If all paperwork has been binned over the years.... then whats stopping excel from doctoring any new requests for paperwork to meet guidlines??

..... and risk jail time for a mere monkey?

Terry78

Redx wrote: »

you seem to have a pretty good understanding of this in your reply above

I have added some comments in red for you

bear in mind that I am not a lawyer nor do I have any legal training so sometimes I may not get the legalese exactly right, but I know what I am inferring and most people wouldnt be pedantic enough to read 2000 words that I write and then pick up on just one slight inconsistency , clearly pedantrry is not dead as can be observed in some replies in this thread which is a hazard of trying to help you

ie:- you may know a lot of people who drive the vehicle, yet not know who drove on the day, if say two or three people who drive the vehicle went out in it on those days, who is to say who actually drove the vehicle, you may not have even be in this country at the time

for example, if my vehicle had a pcn from Excel 4 years ago at the Peel Centre in Stockport , how would I now know if it was myself or my wife that drove on that day ? how would I know it wasnt a driver for EVANS HALSHAW that drove that day as my vehicle was in for service and a mechanic used it to go to the nearby KFC and buy his dinner ? - How do I know it wasnt the courtesy car driver who left that with me , picked up my vehicle and drove it to the garage that morning and back from there in the afternoon (and bought his breakfast or late lunch from KFC or F&B on his journey) whilst we both stayed at home that day



hence I may know or have met the driver themselves as a person, but NOT KNOW who actually drove the vehicle that day and went and parked on the Peel Centre (but I may know that it wasnt me or my wife because we were both at home that day)

yet EXCEL and B W LEGAL think that you as RK or as keeper should carry the can - so you are rebutting those allegations by saying , I OWE YOU NOTHING , PROVE IT , PROVE I WAS DRIVING , PROVE THAT POFA2010 APPLIES TO ME AS KEEPER

otherwise FRO and multiply


capiche ? (lol)

Once again many many thanks and excellent response, im slowly getting there with it. I will look to put up a link to my letter at some point today when i get half an hour to focus on it again.

Terry78

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I have attached links to the LOC i jave recived, the only page i haven't included is the one with a small table which shows the date of each ticket and a ref number along with the charge and reason as parking without displaying avalid ticket/permit.... even though the retail park was ANPR system there.

If you need me to upload this i can but due to the personal data i would have to remove there wouldnt be much left to read..

Coupon-mad

Which location and why was the car parked with no ticket, was it only there briefly?

Terry78

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Which location and why was the car parked with no ticket, was it only there briefly?

I am not sure how long it was there on each occasion but no ticket on each occasion i think and must have been over the 15 minutes grace period given.
Stockport Peel Centre was the location

Redx

PEEL CENTRE has featured heavily on this forum for over 7 years, look up MARTIN CUTTS when he was caught many years ago now

it was why I mentioned it as an example as I thought you had mentioned it at some point, PLUS those signs have been regularly changed over the years. its possible the driver was going to the KFC and got caught out over grace periods for example. it is rare to get a windscreen ticket but its been pay and display for many years , but was free overnight many years ago, which changed to p&d at all times

you really need those NTK,s because they will show the reasons for the invoices, hence the SAR to Excel

I myself as well as people like coupon mad was advising people on here back in 2014 and especially about the PEEL CENTRE as it is a notorious car park

what we are telling you now is what should have been done 4 years ago, which was appeal to excel and then to popla , so at the moment you are trying to do the same task 4 years later , but with no popla to help you